Brave new world... worlds

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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LtColKay
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Brave new world... worlds

Post by LtColKay »

Greetings.

I am young enough that I didn't play Elite when it was new and somehow missed out all the fun growing up. Now I'm grown and apparently GTA, Garry's Mod and Minecraft don't consume enough of my free time so I've taken up Oolite. All my work colleagues have watched me play and walked away shaking their heads, so it must be good.

I've been playing about a week, I've Dropboxed my saves so I can play at work during my lunchbreak and carry on plying that trade route between Lave and Zaonce (rhymes with Beyoncé right?). Now I've mastered manual docking and generally do it at max thrust now - problematic on my work laptop where I have to run it in wireframe mode with all the detail off and no shaders. Is there a recommended low-performance optimisation guide? Docking in a transparent bay in the dark is very hard! I could slow down of course, but where's the fun in that?

On another note, can anyone suggest recommended (trading based... for now) upgrades to my C3? I've not got any game-altering OXPs at the moment, but I do have advanced compass, advanced nav array and the extra cargo bay. I'm clocking up the ₢s on furs and fine wines and I'm not sure what would be the best bets for the next purchase. I was thinking the docking computer but I'm not dead set on it.

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by Cody »

Welcome aboard. Get fuel injectors next (and maybe external heat shielding - then you can sun-skim for fuel) - you don't need docking computers.

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by Disembodied »

Injectors, for certain - and fuel scoops too, if you don't have them: despite the name, their main function is scooping up canisters of cargo (and any escape pods) you might find floating around. That's where the profit lies: cargo you don't have to pay for. Not that I'm recommending piracy! Far from it - but there's enough bad guys out there that there's often salvage left over, and of course you can pop a pirate in legitimate self-defence AND make more money from a single canister from the wreckage than you are ever likely to get as a bounty payment.

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by Smivs »

Hi LtColKay, and welcome to the game and the Board.
What they ^ said. Injectors and fuel scoops next. :)
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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by JazHaz »

LtColKay wrote:Now I'm grown and apparently GTA, Garry's Mod and Minecraft don't consume enough of my free time so I've taken up Oolite..
Welcome!

Sorry, Garry's Mod? Not heard of that one. Is it some sort of "The Sims" in a sandbox?

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by Gecko »

Welcome Commander :)

We all had to learn to manually dock and we all eventually did it (and yes, sometimes it is something special) but I love to qickly step by at a station with Shift-C, fill up and go ahead...

This is how I bought my enhancements:
Large Cargo Bay
Docking Computer
ECM System
Fuel Injectors
Fuel Scoops ... etc...

If Fuel Injectors and Fuel Scoops are damaged I immediatly stop all actions and go to repair them...
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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by Cody »

Gecko wrote:... I love to qickly step by at a station with Shift-C...
Ah, but you miss the joy of docking at full-tilt. Besides, going by the ship-clock, manual docking is much quicker.

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by Diziet Sma »

G'day LtColKay, and welcome aboard! 8)
LtColKay wrote:... problematic on my work laptop where I have to run it in wireframe mode with all the detail off and no shaders. Is there a recommended low-performance optimisation guide?
<chuckle> I think I see the real reason your work colleagues walk away shaking their heads.. they think you've retro'd to the '80s! :lol:

Seriously though, if you have to turn things down to that level, it sounds like work has lumbered you with some seriously antique hardware. If you can give us a few details about it, we might be able to recommend some settings.

Specifically, we need to know:
Make and model - (look on the underside)
Operating System - Win98, XP, Vista, Win7, etc
CPU type/speed
Amount of RAM
Graphics chip

Most of that can be found by right-clicking on "My Computer" and selecting "Properties". The best way to find the graphics chip data is by posting Oolite's "Latest.log" which should be located in <oolite install directory>/oolite.app/Logs/. Please post it between 'code' tags (see the buttons above the post editor window).

Also, are you able to make changes to the laptop's settings, install drivers, etc, or has work totally locked all that down?
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by LtColKay »

Make and model - Toshiba Satellite Pro C660-1NQ
Operating System - Windows 8 Enterprise x64
CPU type/speed - Intel Core 2 Duo T6670 @ 2.20MHz
Amount of RAM - 3GB, 2.87GB usable (someone's nicked some of my RAM! The factory config is 4GB!)
Graphics chip - Intel GMA 4500MHD

The laptop is not massively old and for most things performs surprisingly well. The battery life is unbelievable for a laptop of its age and class. It's just not designed for running games on. I suspect the issue is the GMA because Toshiba have never released a Windows 8 version and the hacks to get the newer Intel-released driver running on Windows 8 drove me to dual-boot Windows 7 when I needed a Minecraft fix.

Basically, if a client came to me and asked me about running games on this laptop I'd tell them it was a waste of time!

As requested, the log. Sorry if there's superfluous data here, I'm not 100% familiar with the log format yet.

Code: Select all

Opening log for Oolite version 1.77.1 (x86-64) under Windows 6.2.9200  64-bit at 2013-11-05 14:07:57 +0000.
2 processors detected.
Build options: spoken messages, mass/fuel pricing.

Note that the contents of the log file can be adjusted by editing logcontrol.plist.

14:07:57.288 [dataCache.rebuild.pathsChanged]: Cache is stale (search paths have changed). Rebuilding from scratch.
14:07:57.862 [display.mode.list.native]: Windows native resolution detected: 1366 x 768
14:07:57.883 [joystick.init]: Number of joysticks detected: 0
14:07:57.884 [rendering.opengl.version]: OpenGL renderer version: 1.1.0 ("1.1.0"). Vendor: "Microsoft Corporation". Renderer: "GDI Generic".
14:07:57.884 [rendering.opengl.extensions]: OpenGL extensions (3):
GL_EXT_paletted_texture, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_WIN_swap_hint
14:07:57.899 [rendering.opengl.shader.support]: Shaders will not be used (OpenGL extension GL_ARB_shading_language_100 is not available).
14:07:57.930 [dataCache.rebuild.pathsChanged]: Cache is stale (search paths have changed). Rebuilding from scratch.
14:07:57.932 [searchPaths.dumpAll]: Unrestricted mode - resource paths:
    Resources
    ../AddOns
    ../AddOns/Audible_Docking_Clearance_1.3.oxp
    ../AddOns/BGS-A1.9.oxp
    ../AddOns/Cabal_Common_Library1.7.oxp
    ../AddOns/Destination ETA 1.0.8.oxp
    ../AddOns/Lave.oxp
    ../AddOns/randomshipnames1.3.oxp
    ../AddOns/RealisticStars 1.1.oxp
    ../AddOns/Snoopers2.5.oxp
    ../AddOns/TalkativeCompass_1.0.4.oxp
    ../AddOns/Traffic Control 1.11.oxp
    ../AddOns/Welcome Mat 1.13.oxp
14:07:58.282 [shipData.load.begin]: Loading ship data.
14:08:00.248 [script.load.world.listAll]: Loaded 27 world scripts:
    audible_docking_clearance 1.2
    BGS-M 1.9
    BGS-XMapping 1.9
    Cabal_Common_Briefing 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Comms 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Functions 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Keyboard 1.7
    Cabal_Common_MissionHandling 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Music 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Overlay 1.7
    Cabal_Common_OXPStrength 1.7
    Cabal_Common_SpecialMarkets 1.7
    Destination ETA 1.0.8
    oolite-cloaking-device 1.77.1
    oolite-constrictor-hunt 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-cargo 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-helpers 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-parcels 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-passengers 1.77.1
    oolite-nova 1.77.1
    oolite-thargoid-plans 1.77.1
    oolite-trumbles 1.77.1
    randomshipnames 1.3
    snoopers 2.5
    Talkative Space Compass 1.0.4
    TrafficControl 1.1
    Welcome Information Script 1.13
14:08:01.255 [startup.complete]: ========== Loading complete in 3.95 seconds. ==========
14:08:23.184 [script.load.world.listAll]: Loaded 27 world scripts:
    audible_docking_clearance 1.2
    BGS-M 1.9
    BGS-XMapping 1.9
    Cabal_Common_Briefing 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Comms 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Functions 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Keyboard 1.7
    Cabal_Common_MissionHandling 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Music 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Overlay 1.7
    Cabal_Common_OXPStrength 1.7
    Cabal_Common_SpecialMarkets 1.7
    Destination ETA 1.0.8
    oolite-cloaking-device 1.77.1
    oolite-constrictor-hunt 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-cargo 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-helpers 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-parcels 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-passengers 1.77.1
    oolite-nova 1.77.1
    oolite-thargoid-plans 1.77.1
    oolite-trumbles 1.77.1
    randomshipnames 1.3
    snoopers 2.5
    Talkative Space Compass 1.0.4
    TrafficControl 1.1
    Welcome Information Script 1.13
14:21:09.514 [station.launchShip.failed]: Cancelled launch for a Adder with role scavenger, as the Coriolis Station has too many ships in its launch queue(s) or no suitable launch docks.
14:21:12.988 [script.load.world.listAll]: Loaded 27 world scripts:
    audible_docking_clearance 1.2
    BGS-M 1.9
    BGS-XMapping 1.9
    Cabal_Common_Briefing 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Comms 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Functions 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Keyboard 1.7
    Cabal_Common_MissionHandling 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Music 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Overlay 1.7
    Cabal_Common_OXPStrength 1.7
    Cabal_Common_SpecialMarkets 1.7
    Destination ETA 1.0.8
    oolite-cloaking-device 1.77.1
    oolite-constrictor-hunt 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-cargo 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-helpers 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-parcels 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-passengers 1.77.1
    oolite-nova 1.77.1
    oolite-thargoid-plans 1.77.1
    oolite-trumbles 1.77.1
    randomshipnames 1.3
    snoopers 2.5
    Talkative Space Compass 1.0.4
    TrafficControl 1.1
    Welcome Information Script 1.13
14:33:46.960 [script.load.world.listAll]: Loaded 27 world scripts:
    audible_docking_clearance 1.2
    BGS-M 1.9
    BGS-XMapping 1.9
    Cabal_Common_Briefing 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Comms 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Functions 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Keyboard 1.7
    Cabal_Common_MissionHandling 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Music 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Overlay 1.7
    Cabal_Common_OXPStrength 1.7
    Cabal_Common_SpecialMarkets 1.7
    Destination ETA 1.0.8
    oolite-cloaking-device 1.77.1
    oolite-constrictor-hunt 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-cargo 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-helpers 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-parcels 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-passengers 1.77.1
    oolite-nova 1.77.1
    oolite-thargoid-plans 1.77.1
    oolite-trumbles 1.77.1
    randomshipnames 1.3
    snoopers 2.5
    Talkative Space Compass 1.0.4
    TrafficControl 1.1
    Welcome Information Script 1.13
14:39:28.975 [station.launchShip.failed]: Cancelled launch for a Adder with role scavenger, as the Icosahedron Station has too many ships in its launch queue(s) or no suitable launch docks.
14:39:39.144 [station.launchShip.failed]: Cancelled launch for a Cobra Mark I with role scavenger, as the Icosahedron Station has too many ships in its launch queue(s) or no suitable launch docks.
14:39:45.681 [script.load.world.listAll]: Loaded 27 world scripts:
    audible_docking_clearance 1.2
    BGS-M 1.9
    BGS-XMapping 1.9
    Cabal_Common_Briefing 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Comms 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Functions 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Keyboard 1.7
    Cabal_Common_MissionHandling 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Music 1.7
    Cabal_Common_Overlay 1.7
    Cabal_Common_OXPStrength 1.7
    Cabal_Common_SpecialMarkets 1.7
    Destination ETA 1.0.8
    oolite-cloaking-device 1.77.1
    oolite-constrictor-hunt 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-cargo 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-helpers 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-parcels 1.77.1
    oolite-contracts-passengers 1.77.1
    oolite-nova 1.77.1
    oolite-thargoid-plans 1.77.1
    oolite-trumbles 1.77.1
    randomshipnames 1.3
    snoopers 2.5
    Talkative Space Compass 1.0.4
    TrafficControl 1.1
    Welcome Information Script 1.13
14:40:04.539 [exit.context]: Exiting: Exit Game selected on options screen.
14:40:04.546 [gameController.exitApp]: .GNUstepDefaults synchronized.

Closing log at 2013-11-05 14:40:04 +0000.
I am local admin but I can't make changes to the machine that would compromise my ability to use it for the intended purpose... I depend on this laptop for day-to-day work and client demos. My home machine is much better suited to Oolite, I just fancied playing it at work.

I'm not sure of the performance impact of the various OXPs I have loaded (or for that matter how to get the FPS displayed on the oolitedeployment.exe version) so if there are any that you think may be having a detrimental impact I can try disabling those.

Edit: corrected model number. Was: C600
Last edited by LtColKay on Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by another_commander »

According to the log above your system is using software OpenGL rendering for Oolite, which explains the abysmal framerates. In most of the cases, this is a problem with drivers, usually incorrect drivers for the card installed.

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by LtColKay »

That would concur with my assessment. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a validated WDDM driver for Windows 8 for it, and Intel's driver didn't install last time I tried. I thought it would probably be unsolvable but it was worth a try.

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by LtColKay »

Success! No performance testing yet though... supposed to be working!

Code: Select all

Opening log for Oolite version 1.77.1 (x86-64) under Windows 6.2.9200  64-bit at 2013-11-06 17:14:27 +0000.
2 processors detected.
Build options: spoken messages, mass/fuel pricing.

Note that the contents of the log file can be adjusted by editing logcontrol.plist.

17:14:28.231 [display.mode.list.native]: Windows native resolution detected: 1366 x 768
17:14:29.190 [joystick.init]: Number of joysticks detected: 0
17:14:29.190 [rendering.opengl.version]: OpenGL renderer version: 2.1.0 ("2.1.0 - Build 8.15.10.2021"). Vendor: "Intel". Renderer: "Mobile Intel(R) 4 Series Express Chipset Family".
17:14:29.190 [rendering.opengl.extensions]: OpenGL extensions (69):
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_ARB_color_buffer_float, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB, GL_NV_conditional_render, GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_ARB_draw_instanced, GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two, GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_NV_blend_square, GL_ARB_shader_objects, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays, GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle, GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_ATI_separate_stencil, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_ARB_texture_float, GL_ARB_window_pos, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_WIN_swap_hint, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_ARB_fragment_program, GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_3DFX_texture_compression_FXT1, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_half_float_pixel, GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_texture_swizzle, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_SGIS_texture_lod
17:14:29.367 [rendering.opengl.shader.support]: Shaders are supported.
17:14:29.404 [searchPaths.dumpAll]: Unrestricted mode - resource paths:
Truncated because... who cares about the rest!?

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by JazHaz »

Nice. You got shaders too. Should run a bit better than before! :wink:

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by another_commander »

I would still be a bit careful about it. Your gfx card is the Intel GMA 4500MHD but the driver reports it as an Intel Series 4 Express. Are you absolutely sure you have installed the right driver?

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Re: Brave new world... worlds

Post by LtColKay »

It matches the device name that Windows detected and the device ID 8086:2A42, and the driver Windows stubbornly refused to update. Intel doesn't publish Windows 8 drivers for the GMA4500 and the most recent Windows 7 drivers are coded not to install on Windows 8 so I've had to go all the way back to a 2009 driver that didn't explicitly exclude Windows 8. Even hacking the INF didn't help due to driver signing. Hopefully this hasn't broken the VGA out because that would be problematic.

As I said before I haven't had a chance to test it yet, that will be tomorrow lunchtime as I spent all lunchbreak today looking for better drivers. I did load it briefly in order to generate the log extract and I'd accidentally left it in plain detail mode after showing a colleague the other day it didn't have to be wireframed - and it was much faster, not jerky at all.

So high hopes. And I will be following the advice above and purchasing some witchfuel injectors and scoops. Question: do free-floating cargo pods show up on the radar?

I'm quite excited about the idea of scooping free fuel. I bet it goes wrong.

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