You picked the wrong client

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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Cody
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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Cody »

cim wrote:A long-distance high-risk contract can easily have a 5-figure (and possibly even 6-figure) payout, though, so for that sort of money I think there should be some tough opposition.
I've been getting plenty of five-figure contracts, but I had wondered how high they might go - and yes, they should entail tough opposition!

I agree with Venator, btw - it seems about right (in 1.81) as is.

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Disembodied »

cim wrote:The issue is that a pure courier - hold filled with passenger cabins and a few parcels on the side - has a 0-cargo ship and won't be attacked by pirates. A courier/miner could have similar benefits (they have hold space, but pirates don't attack miners). Keeping clean is easy enough to stop police and bounty hunters, and traders obviously won't attack them.

The assassins are basically there to ensure that the low-government systems remain dangerous for a courier, making the "few jumps or short time" decisions to be more than just about pressing 'h' a few more times.
Yes, good point, I hadn't thought of that! As for the levels of contracts, Cody and Venator have a lot more experience of a courier's life than I do: if they think the balance is OK, I wouldn't recommend changing it.

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Cody »

Disembodied wrote:As for the levels of contracts, Cody and Venator have a lot more experience of a courier's life than I do:
That's as may be, but I'm still learning - and I'd swear the assassins have learnt a new trick or two.

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by heir »

I do cargo (mainly plats) and passenger. Don't get attacked. Which from the sounds of things I'm really lucky or bugged.

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Venator Dha
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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Venator Dha »

You won't get attacked for cargo. For passengers it's like the parcels, it depends upon the passenger, there's some hints in the description. You have probably just been lucky with your passengers.
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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by heir »

Cargo, parcel, passenger I have top ranking. As I stated in earlier post (not today) I was attacked a few times for runs for 300 creds when I started. Now I do more expensive runs and no one attacked me.

Still haven't been able to get best options due to lack of combat experience. Only 700 odd kills.

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Venator Dha »

I can't say for certain why you're not being attacked, it's defiantly unusual in my experience.
Speculation - It might be that you are only taking zero risk passengers & parcels, that you are only doing short routes through safe systems, with only a couple of parcels. A single Zero risk passenger transported across the galaxy will not get you attacked, whilst a High risk one transported 3 jumps though some anarchies probably would. Also if you only have a single low risk parcel amongst many zero, there might be a single assassin at a witchpoint that doesn't detect you, being clean you might not realise he was looking for you. Also the area you are trading in will make a difference; top right of galaxy 1 - many high security systems - possibility of attack low; bottom right of galaxy 1 - many low security systems - possibility of attack high.
If you want, have a look in your save file and you will be able to find something like this, to give you an idea of your current risk:

Code: Select all

	
	<key>parcels</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180144042727.62592</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140483887.78104</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>4</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>9666</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Ates Rebe's mineral surveys</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>0.0</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>1</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>176</integer>
		</dict>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180145451655.89658</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140701658.07635</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>129</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>13507</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Th Teer's mineral surveys</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>0.0</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>2</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>240</integer>
		</dict>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180142390285.89658</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140701661.97116</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>221</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>1059</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Genudi Ittisequet's mineral surveys</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>0.0</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>1</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>240</integer>
		</dict>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180141951903.89658</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140701670.37213</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>174</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>505</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Lea’et So's recipes for beast steak</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>0.0</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>1</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>240</integer>
		</dict>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180141610521.89658</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140701678.47284</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>241</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>1056</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Stnu Altinoth's press recordings</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>0.0</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>2</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>240</integer>
		</dict>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180142402589.89658</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140701690.60779</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>219</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>5172</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Lalaar Di's corporate research</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>0.0</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>2</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>240</integer>
		</dict>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180143195587.3862</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140771537.17996</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>1</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>1823</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Stesa’ Lazastbe's coded documents</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>0.0</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>1</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>56</integer>
		</dict>
	</array>
	<key>passenger_record</key>
	<dict>
		<key>Lastveor Starsby</key>
		<real>180141231026.37958</real>
		<key>Lora Hector</key>
		<real>180143373744.62592</real>
		<key>Thnuared ben Raatzamafour</key>
		<real>180140775661.78574</real>
	</dict>
	<key>passengers</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>arrival_time</key>
			<real>180143373744.62592</real>
			<key>departure_time</key>
			<real>180140483868.91046</real>
			<key>destination</key>
			<integer>139</integer>
			<key>fee</key>
			<real>8112</real>
			<key>name</key>
			<string>Lora Hector</string>
			<key>premium</key>
			<real>2005</real>
			<key>risk</key>
			<integer>0</integer>
			<key>start</key>
			<integer>176</integer>
		</dict>
Here I currently have 7 parcels (3 high, 4 low, 0 no risk) and 1 passenger (1 no risk). I get attacked a lot, but if I only had the passenger I wouldn't get attacked for the passenger at all (I might still get attacked for past transports that I'd delivered).
This commander is currently on 1964 kills (I tend to restart commanders from time to time) and still doesn't get some jobs for lack of combat experience.
Taurus Driving through the galaxy since... .

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heir
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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by heir »

ah. got 2 x 2 (risk level), 1 x 1 (risk level), then a lot of of at risk level 0. Lets see if I can get more high risk jobs :)

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Venator Dha »

In a reply to another thread, cim brings up another thing that I hadn't considered - how you are perceived by the NPCs. It could be that you are not really considered as a courier by the NPCs most of the time, as I believe that they pick one of the possible roles from the list at random. So not only having more high risk packages but also the chance of being recognised as a courier increases the possibility of an assassination attempt :D
I currently have two commanders both rated Dangerous (581 & 1964 kills) but their route to being a courier were different and their role profiles are somewhat different:

Lauchlan MacQueen - Dangerous (581) spent a lot of time trading before becoming a courier.

Code: Select all

<key>role_weights</key>
	<array>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>hunter</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
Marcelo Ribeiro - Dangerous (1964) was a courier from the start

Code: Select all

<key>role_weights</key>
	<array>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>trader-courier+</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>trader</string>
		<string>player-unknown</string>
		<string>trader</string>
Marcelo gets a good deal more heat than Lauchian (though he's getting more recently as well), but they both had assassin encounters through their progression and has a much higher chance of being recognised as a target for assassins. Lauchian still gets the occasional single krait that was common in his early career, but mainly sees Asps & FdLs now. ( I play with only core ships, so don't know if having OXP ships affects the assassins in anyway). There comes a point I think when the only perceived role will be trader-courier.
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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Alex_F »

Bah, just got a delivery contract which caused an attack from every man and his dog right after the hyperjump. Well, maybe transporting military plans was a bit too risky! Not fun to get jumped by 8-10 vessels on each trip.

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Cody »

Alex_F wrote:Well, maybe transporting military plans was a bit too risky! Not fun to get jumped by 8-10 vessels on each trip.
<chuckles> Injectors are your friend - but you gotta have the fuel!

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Layne »

Cody wrote:
Alex_F wrote:Well, maybe transporting military plans was a bit too risky! Not fun to get jumped by 8-10 vessels on each trip.
<chuckles> Injectors are your friend - but you gotta have the fuel!
Another argument in favor of short jumps. Not only do multiple shorter jumps take less time than one long jump, but you still have a lot of fuel in the tank after each one (assuming you refuel without just immediately jumping to the next point along the route) to keep the injectors hot at the witchpoint. That's why I stick to a smaller, faster ship.

I like the idea of more strategies for balking courier/passenger runs, like the bribery suggestion. What about sabotage? If you have your ship serviced-- aside from refueling-- perhaps there can sometimes be an attempt made to sabotage your Witchdrive or something else non-lethal? Wouldn't want to see bombs planted or anything that wouldn't be fun in-game, but minor attempts to gremlin your ship to delay you could be interesting.

Also, it was mentioned on another thread the idea of less than legal courier and passenger runs. Shady deals with higher price tags. Right now we infer everything to be reasonably legal in GalCop's eyes, but dealing with the wrong sorts of folks could make for a lot of interesting scenarios, like having police waiting at the Witchpoint and assassins coming to your rescue instead of the other way around.
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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Anonymissimus »

cim wrote:The issue is that a pure courier - hold filled with passenger cabins and a few parcels on the side - has a 0-cargo ship and won't be attacked by pirates.
I am attacked by pirates anyway if I only carry platinum/gold/gemstones. They want me to drop the cargo but it's not possible.
Not sure whether it happened with really 0 cargo yet, but your "pure courier" still trades platinum/gold/gemstones I suppose.

So, what to do when I couldn't avoid a long jump into a rather unsafe system ? I can handle maybe 8 or 10 assassins, but if there are 3 packs of 4 or more I cannot fight that many. The only (core) way I see to force all of them to simultaneously cease their attacks is the Q-bomb. It needs to detonate between me and them, forcing them to flee to the opposite side of the explosion so that I'm free to head to the sun to get fuel. If just a single one flees in similar direction as me, the bomb is wasted and all of them come back to attack. (Does this apply to all assassins or only on a per-pack basis ? I seem to have outrun one or more packs at times and fought the rest.) The bomb will likely not catch any of the assassins, but getting away is better than getting a few kills and still being caught by an assassin horde. There's still some fuel needed for putting some space between the assassins and me initially, and for getting away from the explosion, but even long jumps should leave enough for that. The only problem is that the bomb costs 2500, while many parcel contracts pay even less. The best I got with a dangerous commander for a single contract was about 26000 at the end, but most of the time there are only a few 1000. Trade makes way more money. Bounty hunting makes kills and pirates seem a good deal weaker than assassins. So parcel runs are for the excitement only, basically.
The money a contract earns often seems to increase along the way, what does this depend upon ? Count of eliminated assassins ? Delivering early ? The one I got 26000 for was only 16000 at the start IIRC.
EDIT
In addition to the 1-2 bombs per courier run, some repairs and a maintenance overhaul basically consume the earned money. Without the additional trade along the way, they're not worth the pay. But trade can be done in a stationary way between 2 selected safe systems.
Last edited by Anonymissimus on Sun May 17, 2015 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Cody »

Anonymissimus wrote:Delivering early ?
Exactly that, though it's not guaranteed - and if you can't outfight assassins, evade!

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Re: You picked the wrong client

Post by Anonymissimus »

Cody wrote:if you can't outfight assassins, evade!
How exactly would I do that ? Remember, I already tried hard to circumvent dangerous bottleneck systems and long jumps. The galaxies are made in a mean way so that you sometimes have to risk such a jump if you want to arrive in time. Now without enough fuel, no point in trying to run. Other than using the bomb as soon as possible. Or an "extra fuel addon" or an addon ship with more fuel (I suppose such ships exist) of course, but let's assume we are in "strict" mode.
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