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fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:46 pm
by askfor
I'd like to ask is there a living person who successfully managed to refill the fuel tanks bu skimming the star WITHOUT Witchspace Fuel Injectors.
I have found several post about how it is much better to do it with injectors, but I don't have ones. No matter how close I get to the star
scoops NEVER activate. I tried thermal shield, too. Could it be a bug that scoops don't work without injectors at all ?

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:57 pm
by Anonymissimus
To make this clear: You are asking about the ship being equipped/not equipped with injectors, don't you ? Rather than sun skimming with/without activating injectors.
I don't think you can get away in time from the star without using injectors if you want to stay in the system. However, if you have the heat shield and end the process by jumping it should certainly work if your ship is not to slow. Sometimes you need to be pretty close to the star, altitude 15 km or so IIRC, sometimes the meter is even in the red area. I don't think I've ever been closer than 10 km.

Injectors are so important in general that one basically always gets them previously to scoops.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:41 pm
by askfor
Yes, I am talking about ship with no injector installed. With fuel scoops installed. I tried twice, as experiment.
Both times ship exploded before fuels scoops activated. Not even a little bit. Second time was with shield.
As if fuels scoops were not there at all.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:14 pm
by Disembodied
I might be wrong, but some stars are, I think, hotter (and harder to scoop from) than others. The bigger they are on the F6 map, the hotter they are. I've just experimented with skimming a small star: no problem. Head straight for it until the scoops become active, then tilt the nose up to put the star's edge below the crosshairs. Keep an eye on the cabin temperature: if it starts to get too high, head directly away and allow yourself to cool off.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:24 pm
by askfor
Thanks, friend. Do you have injector installed ? If it is a bug, then it matters.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:36 pm
by Redspear
Have you tried installing External Heat Shielding?

At 1,500 Credits it's not cheap for the starting pilot but it can sure help against overheating.

It's been a while but I seem to remember successfully skimming with neither heat shielding nor injectors installed.
Make sure you don't keep heading to the sun in order to scoop fuel - just get close enough and then 'skim' at the same altitude. Torus drive out of there as soon as you escape the masslock.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:49 pm
by askfor
I exploded with heat shield installed in second test. What exactly is that triggers refueling ? It doesn't seem to be the distance alone. Because I was very close when exploded and scoops did not activate.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:20 pm
by phkb
The fuel scoop distance will vary based on the size of the sun in the system. That will have a bearing on how low you have to get to scoop fuel. Which system(s) were you attempting the fuel scoop at?

I just tried scooping fuel on a vanilla version of Oolite 1.86, with just fuel scoops and heat shields, at Tionisla. I used torus to get to the sun, then just cruised until the fuel scooping started. I then pulled up until the sun's horizon was directly ahead and I was flying parallel to the sun's surface. I completely filled my tanks (ie I went from zero fuel to full), then turned away from the sun and headed back towards the planet, again, just cruising (no injectors). Cabin heat had reached about two thirds of the limit by the time I was out of mass lock and able to engage the torus drive, so warm but not uncomfortably so. So it's certainly possible to do it without injectors.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:26 pm
by Redspear
Including the obvious here (partly for my own benefit)...

  • Fuel scoops installed
  • Fuel scoops not damaged
  • Less than a full tank of fuel
  • Approach sun/star with Torus drive, dead centre
  • Upon masslock continue approach at maximum speed, again dead centre (use compass if necessary)
  • Upon scoop activating pull up to maintain altitude and speed (again compass can help)
  • Upon filling tanks pull up further to have sun at your back (compass again)
  • Torus drive at the ready for when you escape masslock

Or, just do as phkb said...

(At least) one more thing: the slower your ship, the tougher it is likely to be to get in and out on time.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:09 pm
by askfor
Thanks everyone. My conclusion is that there is something wrong with my Oolite installation.
One last question. I am running 1.86 on Linux x64. Anyone else scooping with such configuration ?

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:19 pm
by phkb
Another possibility might be any OXP's you have installed. If you're using any, feel free to PM me a list of them (from your latest.log file) and I'll see if I can identify any possible targets.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:22 am
by askfor
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.EricWalch.UPSCourier.oxz
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Galileo.Ionics.oxz
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Rxke.BlackBaron.oxz
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.aegidian.LongWayRound.oxz
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.captsolo.tori2.02.oxz
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Wildeblood.Untrumbled.oxz
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.EricWalch.DeepSpaceDredger.oxz
~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Frame.FuelCollector.oxz

Fuel Collector was added after Fuel Scoop fiasco, so it doesn't matter. Untrumbled, too.
I am sure I had Long Way Around before first attempt. For the rest, I am not sure.

I routinely scooped on 8-bit systems and 16-bit systems. Never had Elite on 32-bit and now, on 64-bit, it does not work.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:28 pm
by Anonymissimus
askfor wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:09 pm
I am running 1.86 on Linux x64. Anyone else scooping with such configuration ?
Yes.

Re: fuel scoops question

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:41 pm
by stranger
In "classic" Oolite 1.77 max altitude for fuel scooping was 0.15 sun radius above surface. If sun radius is 100000 km in planetinfo.plist it equals to 100 km in game units (sun scale is 1:1000). H = 0.15 R means 15 km in game units above sun surface.
I don't know if any temperature differences between suns implemented in "modern" Oolite since 1.80. Thinks refueling in proximity of small sun is safer just because you need less time to leave overheat zone during final climbing. Pure geometry, not advanced astrophysics :D