Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by DaddyHoggy »

For anybody who wants to try "gunnery", "navigation", "comms", etc - download a copy of Artemis: http://www.artemis.eochu.com/
Selezen wrote:Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Greyth »

I've not heard of it but it looks like the kind of thing I was suggesting.
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by DaddyHoggy »

Greyth wrote:I've not heard of it but it looks like the kind of thing I was suggesting.
We use it at work for Military students to try "team building" while remaining in a relatively restricted and therefore comfortable/familiar command structure. We then deconstruct it during teaching into comms, graphics, networking, etc...
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Greyth »

:shock: Sounds a lot more interesting than a networked game of Doom! :lol:
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by DaddyHoggy »

Greyth wrote::shock: Sounds a lot more interesting than a networked game of Doom! :lol:
For first person shooters we use Urban Terror, because it uses many of the same keys that VBS2 uses, so we get over the panic of the student having to use a mouse and keyboard simultaneously.
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Greyth »

Uh, I don't even know what VBS2 is unless it's Visual Basic Studio 2, could you change down a couple of gears please? :oops:
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Cody »

Greyth wrote:Uh, I don't even know what VBS2 is
VBS2

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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Greyth »

Ah, virtual battlespace. Thank you for persevering El Viejo.
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by DaddyHoggy »

Greyth wrote:Ah, virtual battlespace. Thank you for persevering El Viejo.
Apologies - the problem with working with the Military is that TLAs* are the norm.

* Three Letter Abbreviations
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Gimi »

DaddyHoggy wrote: Apologies - the problem with working with the Military is that TLAs* are the norm.
* Three Letter Abbreviations
:? Rubbish, it's not limited to TLAs. :roll:
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Selezen »

DaddyHoggy wrote:For anybody who wants to try "gunnery", "navigation", "comms", etc - download a copy of Artemis: http://www.artemis.eochu.com/
That looks like fun. My son is an avid Star Trek fan, and he would jump all over that game. He'd turn his bedroom into a bridge and invite all his mates round. Better not tell him about it...

I agree with Cdr James (especially due to his extensive credentials in the Oolite dev community) when he says that multiplayer Oolite based on the current code base would be a monumental task.

I had an idea about a compromise OXP that would allow a semi-multiplayer experience (without the tedious "chat room" mentality) without having to rip out the guts of the program (link here if you want to take a look) but even that would take some serious work in the deep roots of the code in order to work.

It happens all the time - a newcomer comes along and has the same idea as every other newcomer: multiplayer oolite would be easy. Well, this thread should be read FROM THE FIRST POST before any newcomer makes a comment about how "easy" a multiplayer oolite would be. Believe me, Mr Greyth, there are about 4 years of comments about how easy it isn't (I know, that's poor grammar).

You're not the first to think like this and you won't be the last. I think the end result of these conversations is always the same though... if you think it can be done then take a copy of the code and go do it! Always, of course, bearing in mind the licensing terms... ;-)
Last edited by Selezen on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Smivs »

Just a thought, but would it be worth re-naming this thread "Why Oolite cannot and never will be a Multiplayer game".
The very title almost suggests that it is a possibility, and inevitably there will be a steady stream of newcomers who misguidedly think Multiplayer would be a good thing and will repeatedly petition for this.
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Switeck »

Smivs wrote:Just a thought, but would it be worth re-naming this thread "Why Oolite cannot and never will be a Multiplayer game".
I'd prefer renaming the title to:
"Why Oolite is NOT a Multiplayer game"

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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by SandJ »

Clambers onto high horse...

I am an IT professional with 28 years of experience in multi-user systems development. I started out working on real-time, multi-user, transaction-based (which an interactive multi-user Oolite would need to be) systems with proper record locking, fail-over, backout, security and consideration for the processor and comms traffic speeds available. I not only know how to write them, I have produced innovative solutions and trained others to produce systems they thought could not be done.

Speaking from experience, there is an immense difference between coding an application that works stand-alone and provides the best possible end-user experience in multi-platform environments, and producing a multi-user game that provides all co-existing players with a similar and engrossing playing experience without suffering from performance issues.

The only way anyone will produce a multi-user Oolite with interaction between players on different computers will be by re-writing it from scratch.

But having done so, it will not work because the combat and time models and geographical models will not make it a viable game.

You could have a multi-player Frontier universe with real physics (except travelling from the jump point to the planet would take days so might be a bit dull). Multi-player Elite / Oolite, won't work.

Next problem: production of a game worth playing is incredibly difficult (any game, not just computer games). Balance is very hard to achieve. In the case of Elite / Oolite, NPCs are relatively weak and die lots relative to human players. It has to be that way to be fun. How can that work when two humans meet? One will lose their cargo, kills ranking, cash, everything. And in turn the winner will themselves be killed a few minutes later. Nobody would ever get to "Competent". So it would be a crap game. You launch, get shot and die, start again, launch, die, start again, launch, die, uninstall game. There would be no fun.

Multi-user Oolite would be like a version of Monopoly where every time you pay rent, you have to start the game from the beginning again. But with nobody to play against because they are playing on another board in another galaxy.
Gimi wrote:
DaddyHoggy wrote:Apologies - the problem with working with the Military is that TLAs* are the norm.
* Three Letter Abbreviations
:? Rubbish, it's not limited to TLAs. :roll:
And in the IT industry, longer ones are called ETLAs*.


* Extended Three Letter Acronyms
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Re: Oolite Multiplayer? Please read

Post by Greyth »

Chaps, I was impelled to offer the suggestion as it does not appear in previous postings. So yes, I did read FROM THE FIRST POST. I am not disappointed or surprised at it's rejection and am in no way offended. Quite the contrary, I'm flattered that anyone bothered to respond in any way. Do not be misled into believing that I think software development is easy. Attaining perfection never is and software working as intended is the closest thing to perfection that exists (o.k. with the possible exception of genetic code)

Regrettably, if anyone is to amend the code to include any kind of multi-player aspect it cannot be me as I am rendered unfit for that purpose although I dearly wish it could be otherwise.

I did have a look at your thread Selezen. It looks like a fantastic idea if I understand it at all. It is a comfort to know that all that can be done will be done and is, indeed, being done. 8)
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