On energy bombs

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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scaseman
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Post by scaseman »

I really can not see any reason to take out the energy bomb. Every players game is different with all of the various OXP's that are available. If I do or do not want to use an energy bomb I will buy or not buy one that is my decision. Does that decision harm any other Oolite player? No of course not. If you really have to take the energy bomb out may I suggest that the Q-Mine becomes ship mounted rather than pylon mounted so you can still use the tab key to launch it. As in the heat of play as someone else has already stated it takes time to target and launch. The use of either weapon is usually not taken lightly due to cost. Also with all of the weapons and equipment that fit on a pylon space is becoming a bit of a premium.
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JazHaz
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Post by JazHaz »

Disembodied wrote: Personally, I think it's removing something which has never really fitted, something jarring that just can't be explained away; something that, when used, breaks the illusion and mars the playing experience.
No it CAN be explained away:
The Elite Wiki wrote:A powerful one-shot device that emits a high-powered electromagnetic pulse, disrupting plasma containment in drives of nearby ships, resulting in catastrophic damage. Well shielded larger vessels are capable of withstanding this assault on occasion, but small ships invariably do not survive. Triggering the Energy Bomb temporarily deactivates sensitive components. The pulse is harmonised with the drive of the firing ship.
Since when does a perfectly ordinary electromagnetic pulse break all the laws of physics, to become unavailable in the Elite universe?
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drew wrote:£4,500 though! :shock: <Faints>
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Post by JazHaz »

lfnfan wrote: If you want to draw on sources, I would argue that Status Quo is more relevant canon for Oolite than The Dark Wheel Edit: i.e. Q-Mines are more relevant to the Ooniverse than Energy Bombs are (Drew has stated his view(s) already).
That statement is quite frankly: bollocks!

The Dark Wheel is the inspiration for all Elite based literature including Status Quo.

The Dark Wheel is the inspiration for many bits of Oolite equipment and OXP's. Noted examples include: The Tionsala Orbital Graveyard OXP, Famous Planets OXP, the Dark Wheel Cobra.....
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drew wrote:£4,500 though! :shock: <Faints>
Cheers,
Drew.
Maybe you could start a Kickstarter Campaign to found your £4500 pledge. 8)
Thanks to Gimi, I got an eBook in my inbox tonight (31st May 2014 - Release of Elite Reclamation)!

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Post by JazHaz »

DaddyHoggy wrote: Genuinely confused as to why this is unexpectedly such a huge issue (it's nearly as odd as the big ship fuel debate).
Why are you confused?

It is very simple.

It is from ELITE.

Do not remove it!
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Gimi wrote:
drew wrote:£4,500 though! :shock: <Faints>
Cheers,
Drew.
Maybe you could start a Kickstarter Campaign to found your £4500 pledge. 8)
Thanks to Gimi, I got an eBook in my inbox tonight (31st May 2014 - Release of Elite Reclamation)!

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Re: Detailed counter proposal.

Post by JazHaz »

ClymAngus wrote:Dissipate the damage done at father range. Make it a pirric victory instead of a white wash. (sorry getting lightly riled by this.)
It's not as if they affect anything outside of scanner range!
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Gimi wrote:
drew wrote:£4,500 though! :shock: <Faints>
Cheers,
Drew.
Maybe you could start a Kickstarter Campaign to found your £4500 pledge. 8)
Thanks to Gimi, I got an eBook in my inbox tonight (31st May 2014 - Release of Elite Reclamation)!

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Post by DaddyHoggy »

JazHaz wrote:
DaddyHoggy wrote: Genuinely confused as to why this is unexpectedly such a huge issue (it's nearly as odd as the big ship fuel debate).
Why are you confused?

It is very simple.

It is from ELITE.

Do not remove it!
No need to shout. :wink: But Oolite is not Elite unless you're playing in strict mode (and even then - you're not - because the game is no longer player-centric).

If you don't want it removed then modify the killit(tm).oxp to put it back in, then you and every NPC (could potentially) have an e-bomb.
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Post by Disembodied »

JazHaz wrote:Since when does a perfectly ordinary electromagnetic pulse break all the laws of physics, to become unavailable in the Elite universe?
I didn't mean the device itself couldn't be explained away – I'm a keen devotee of the power of technobabble. :) What is much, much trickier to explain is why the player is the only person in the entire universe who ever gets to use one.

That's the design flaw with the e-bomb. If NPCs get it, it's a game-breaker: it would be beyond infuriating to be zapping away at a bunch of enemies, jinking, dodging and generally being cool and awesome, only to suddenly and instantly die because some ninny NPC triggers his you're-all-dead device. But if NPCs don't get to use them – even if they've been modified and tweaked and altered – then there's the unanswerable question: why not?

A one-button smart bomb, fired with no warning and giving no chance to escape, is, I think, a poor piece of game design in this context. It's a fine idea in Asteroids or Defender, but in my opinion it doesn't sit well in Elite.

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Post by JazHaz »

DaddyHoggy wrote:But Oolite is not Elite.
Yes it is. Otherwise why base the name on it?

Why not just call it "Star Traders"?
DaddyHoggy wrote:If you don't want it removed then modify the killit(tm).oxp to put it back in, then you and every NPC (could potentially) have an e-bomb.
Why should we have to do that? Energy bombs are CANON.

I have no problem with NPC's being able to use energy bombs. Just give them the same AI to use them as a last resort, as how most people use them.
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Gimi wrote:
drew wrote:£4,500 though! :shock: <Faints>
Cheers,
Drew.
Maybe you could start a Kickstarter Campaign to found your £4500 pledge. 8)
Thanks to Gimi, I got an eBook in my inbox tonight (31st May 2014 - Release of Elite Reclamation)!

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Post by JazHaz »

Disembodied wrote: That's the design flaw with the e-bomb. If NPCs get it, it's a game-breaker
A worse game breaker in my opinion is the fact that its always you against lots of NPCs at the same time. The energy bomb levels it up for a while. Normally only a short while, because it doesn't kill anything outside of scanner range.
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Gimi wrote:
drew wrote:£4,500 though! :shock: <Faints>
Cheers,
Drew.
Maybe you could start a Kickstarter Campaign to found your £4500 pledge. 8)
Thanks to Gimi, I got an eBook in my inbox tonight (31st May 2014 - Release of Elite Reclamation)!

another_commander
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Post by another_commander »

JazHaz wrote: I have no problem with NPC's being able to use energy bombs. Just give them the same AI to use them as a last resort, as how most people use them.
The moment you do that, you have killed all gameplay in one swift move.

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Post by Disembodied »

JazHaz wrote:I have no problem with NPC's being able to use energy bombs. Just give them the same AI to use them as a last resort, as how most people use them.
Horrible, horrible idea. I'm constantly pushing NPCs to a state of last resort: we all are. NPCs using energy bombs would just trigger a host of spurious bug reports. "I was fighting this pirate, doing pretty well then KABOOM, I died. What's up with that?", etc. You can't give NPCs energy bombs.
JazHaz wrote:A worse game breaker in my opinion is the fact that its always you against lots of NPCs at the same time. The energy bomb levels it up for a while. Normally only a short while, because it doesn't kill anything outside of scanner range.
That's one of the perils of being a lone-wolf trader. It's what the game is all about: you versus the universe. Although you can get help; I've been rescued by the Navy, and assisted by the cops, and helped out by bounty hunters. I've even scraped a bunch of pirates off on a passing Thargoid. :twisted: And I'm a way, way better pilot than the AI ever will be – and this is true for all of us.

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Post by JazHaz »

At the risk of repeating myself.

I will NOT be installing 1.74 until energy bombs are put back.

Simple.
Last edited by JazHaz on Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gimi wrote:
drew wrote:£4,500 though! :shock: <Faints>
Cheers,
Drew.
Maybe you could start a Kickstarter Campaign to found your £4500 pledge. 8)
Thanks to Gimi, I got an eBook in my inbox tonight (31st May 2014 - Release of Elite Reclamation)!

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Re: Detailed counter proposal.

Post by ClymAngus »

JazHaz wrote:
ClymAngus wrote:Dissipate the damage done at father range. Make it a pirric victory instead of a white wash. (sorry getting lightly riled by this.)
It's not as if they affect anything outside of scanner range!
True, but when taking into account my other posts and NOT taking this one post at face value for the sake of a quick slap fight......Which you may or may not win. :twisted:

A range of options could be supplied thus adding to the game instead of taking away. I really think this is evolving into a "control issue" rather than a "game balance" one. Unfortunately they usually get ugly. Fortunately we have oxp's with which to circumvent any arbitary coding that gets thrown about the place.

Thus balance is restored and everyone is happy; The haters get eb's removed from the CORE game and (place your name here) gets to keep his/her great big BoOm!

Oolite is Welite not Ilite or Youlite. More choice, not less.

Disembodied I will take you to task on one small point, the game you described is the one that you wish to play. Some people might get more gratification playing a more one sided game. I could be misunderstanding your point but is there any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to?

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Post by Thargoid »

To ask an obvious question, why not just have e-bombs as a game option like docking permission requirement and fancy planets and that sort of thing? Have the default to be OFF, but if people want them so badly they can just change a config file or do a suitable build (or whatever the requirement is for changing these things) and lo, in their Ooniverse the E-bomb is alive and well.

Then everyone's happy and we can go back to our normal bantering about Griff's lovely paint jobs and suchlike.

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Re: Detailed counter proposal.

Post by Disembodied »

ClymAngus wrote:Disembodied I will take you to task on one small point, the game you described is the one that you wish to play. Some people might get more gratification playing a more one sided game. I could be misunderstanding your point but is there any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to?
No, not at all – and the fact that this is removing something from the core game, rather than adding to it, does give me pause. But then again, I think that the e-bomb is such an unwieldy blunt instrument, which sits so badly with [what I perceive to be] the spirit of the game, the proper place for it is in the AddOns folder, where those who want it can have it and those that don't, don't have to.

Admittedly, I don't have to have an e-bomb now (and I don't). I just pretend it's not there. But it's a constant little nagging reminder of [what I perceive to be] a flaw in the game. Not that long ago I somehow managed to buy one accidentally, and had to sail off somewhere really quiet to discharge it. It irks me. Its presence isn't a gamebreaker, as far as I'm concerned, but it irks me. :)

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