[Release] Market Observer

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JeX
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.0.1

Post by JeX »

spara wrote:
JeX wrote:Come again? How does data gathered have an influence on why the actual market prices are equal to the market average prices?

Should I then expect them to change on my next docking?
At start the oxp only sees the prices of the station you are docked, so it initializes min, avg and max to those prices. Next time you dock to somewhere else (or witchspace to another system), it sees those prices and updates min, avg and max accordingly. The idea is that it starts gathering market data instead of knowing the hard coded values of the game. This hopefully gives you a feeling of a more dynamic galaxy.
Hi Spara. I appreciate you answering me but I have to repeat my question as I did understand your answer perfectly the first time:
Why is the actual station market prices set to be the the same as precisely the average prices, when these prices are not the same prices after removing the OXP?

I have seen this three times now in a row and it seems as if the OXP actually manipulates the prices to be set as average.

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.0.1

Post by spara »

JeX wrote: Hi Spara. I appreciate you answering me but I have to repeat my question as I did understand your answer perfectly the first time:
Why is the actual station market prices set to be the the same as precisely the average prices, when these prices are not the same prices after removing the OXP?

I have seen this three times now in a row and it seems as if the OXP actually manipulates the prices to be set as average.
Thanks for bearing me. This oxp does not touch market prices, so there's something else going on. (Only if you have Commodity Markets with marketObserver installed, then the prices are altered)

Here's my Jameson market with marketObserver:
Image

And here without:
Image

The market prices are not touched and everything looks ok. Could it be some other oxp? Has anybody else noticed this?

JeX
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.0.1

Post by JeX »

spara wrote:
JeX wrote: Hi Spara. I appreciate you answering me but I have to repeat my question as I did understand your answer perfectly the first time:
Why is the actual station market prices set to be the the same as precisely the average prices, when these prices are not the same prices after removing the OXP?

I have seen this three times now in a row and it seems as if the OXP actually manipulates the prices to be set as average.
Thanks for bearing me. This oxp does not touch market prices, so there's something else going on. (Only if you have Commodity Markets with marketObserver installed, then the prices are altered)

Here's my Jameson market with marketObserver:
Image

And here without:
Image

The market prices are not touched and everything looks ok. Could it be some other oxp? Has anybody else noticed this?
Ok, now I see what is going on. I was simply mistaking causation from the wrong way around, and I now realise that you were actually providing me with an answer in your two posts. I just failed to realise that the MarketObserver avg prices were the same as the station prices, not the other way around. Seeing your screenshots helped me to realise that I would assume that my experienced market prices were actually average, when they, in fact, were not.
I am stupid and apologize for the inconvenience. And I will use the OXP now, promise ;)

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.0.1

Post by spara »

JeX wrote: I am stupid and apologize for the inconvenience. And I will use the OXP now, promise ;)
No worries, glad it sorted out :D.

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by spara »

An update with big changes (2.1). Now it's worth the major number 2 8).

* Bugfixes (and probably introducing new bugs).
* Some toggleable variable options has been removed to simplify things.
* Removed compatibility with Commodity Markets OXP.
* From now on marketObserver is split into the core oxp and addons to separate the market screen enhancing part from others. Core and addons are bundled into the same download file.
* Features included in the core: "Market Price Gatherer," "In System Trade Helper," "HyperCargo Viewer," "Purchace Log," and "Ads." All but the ads can be toggled on or off from the script file.
* mO-Trader's Rating addon gives you the Trader's Rank based on profit made from standard market. Install as a separate oxp.
* mO-Commodity Markets addon is a re-write of Thargoid's Commodity Markets OXP. It transforms _all_ markets to buy and sell markets giving different prices for buying and selling. Buy/Sell prices of random commodities are randomly fluctuated to give the feeling of changing markets. Original prices are not touched. This addon overrides the "In System Trade Helper" feat (no more room to have 'em both :(). Install as a separate oxp.

Core should work with the AI Trading Assistant as before, but the mO-Commodity Markets addon is not tested. If someone tests it against AITA, please report how it works. In theory, it just might work :D... or not.

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by spara »

Did some heavy testing and one thing started to bother me. It's the permanence of those min/max prices. It takes just one peak value from BlOomberg and it will stay there for ever practically rendering that particular piece of trade information useless. So I'm pondering between two solutions to cope with it:

1. Slowly over time change the logged min/max values closer to the average. Would be very easy to implement. Just have to figure out a suitable rate of degrading.

2. Give up min/max values and instead show average and standard deviation of values. This would be a big change of behavior, but it would take care of those peak values by itself and it would actually give very useful trading data. It would also free some space, so I could squeeze in the main station prices, when using mO-Commodity Markets. This somehow feels more 'right' solution, but then again, it's only a game :D. (Or is it?)

According to the downloads, there seems to be quite a few users, so I'm a bit hesitant to do drastic changes of behaviour. So it's better to ask. Which solution would be more preferable?

Edit: corrected distribution to deviation.
Last edited by spara on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by Rorschachhamster »

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "average and standard distribution of values".
The built in average and standard? :?:

If that's the case I find the logged values to be more realistic - because they show what you have seen. And degradation would be ok, I guess, but as long as you don't hit a bloomberg market fast twice with the same commodity, it happens by itself, over time... or doesn't it? :wink:

EDIT: Ah, now I see, you mean the peak values - yes they would stay there. But - as you could probably sell them again for such a high price (or buy low) under similar conditions... :wink: Maybe a reminder "Ah, yes, the computer shortage on Lave... glorius times!" :lol:
Last edited by Rorschachhamster on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by spara »

Rorschachhamster wrote:I'm not quite sure what you mean by "average and standard distribution of values".
The built in average and standard? :?:
Sorry, wrong term used. Should have said standard deviation. :oops:

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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by Rorschachhamster »

spara wrote:
Rorschachhamster wrote:I'm not quite sure what you mean by "average and standard distribution of values".
The built in average and standard? :?:
Sorry, wrong term used. Should have said standard deviation. :oops:
As I edited at the same time, maybe both would be the thing... but unpracticall for place reasons. :?

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by spara »

Rorschachhamster wrote:
spara wrote:
Rorschachhamster wrote:I'm not quite sure what you mean by "average and standard distribution of values".
The built in average and standard? :?:
Sorry, wrong term used. Should have said standard deviation. :oops:
As I edited at the same time, maybe both would be the thing... but unpracticall for place reasons. :?
Both would be nice, but as you said, the space is very limited. I'm trying to make as much use of it as possible. When trading, the data needed is the average and the range of prices. The average is composed of the main station prices and seems to be helping the trade as intended. Range then again can be ruined by bad (or good :)) oxp station prices and BlOomberg. If someone is using stations with wild prices, then the economics of the game are already ruined and mO just reflects that. The real problem is, that when those stations are removed from the game, mO still remembers. Same goes with BlOombers. There might never be the same offer again for a commodity, but mO still remembers.

Gamewise the degrading of the range values over time is probably the best solution. I'll be experimenting that.

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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by Switeck »

Have it only remember prices from the last 30 days as a workaround.

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.1

Post by spara »

Switeck wrote:Have it only remember prices from the last 30 days as a workaround.
Thought about that too, but it would require storing the actual market prices and I'm trying to keep the stored information in minimum. I actually don't save any market prices at all, only update the average & min & max. Degrading the min & max slowly kind of emulates the effect.

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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.2

Post by spara »

New version (2.2). Now it feels quite finished. This new update changes the behaviour so that the economy around the player feels more alive. Now it feels more like a market report than a table of fixed numbers.

* New feature: Price difference viewer. Shows the difference of the market price compared to the average gathered in percentage. In addition of being useful counts as eye candy in my book. 8)
* Change of behaviour: Min/max values now have an expiration time. If a value has not been refreshed for 10 days, it means that the market has changed and the data is considered to be outdated. After that the value is slowly moved closer to the average until a new value is found. This way it better reflects the economies araound the player rather than the hard coded values of the game.
* Change of behaviour: After 100 updates to the average, the current average is weighted with 100 when new values are brought to the calculation. This way it better reflects the economies araound the player rather than the hard coded values of the game.

Image

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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.2

Post by toltesi »

I'm a brand new Oolite user (loving it).

I've noticed that this seems incompatible with the amazing NumericHUDv3 which is very disappointing. Removing NumericHUDv3.oxp allows the marketObserver 2.2 to work just fine.

Can these be made to work happily side-by-side?

Please advise; have a great day!

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spara
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Re: [Release] marketObserver 2.2

Post by spara »

toltesi wrote:I'm a brand new Oolite user (loving it).

I've noticed that this seems incompatible with the amazing NumericHUDv3 which is very disappointing. Removing NumericHUDv3.oxp allows the marketObserver 2.2 to work just fine.

Can these be made to work happily side-by-side?

Please advise; have a great day!
Thanks for the report. New version (2.2.1) is up. It should fix the problem.

* Forced compatibility with switching huds. Added a framecallback, that makes sure that mO's own hud is up, when viewing market screen. Trading Assistant's special hud is excluded from this forcing to maintain conpatibility.

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