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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Small ships burn less fuel when using injectors:
- Adder: -40%
- Moray: -24%
- Cobra MK1: -10%
- Fer De Lance: -10%

Those ships have a small cargo bay so they are better used for contracts or bounty hunting than for trading or mining. An improved burning rate means that the player can be more confident when jumping to an unsafe system, because injectors are the main mean to escape dangerous situations (for instance turning a 1vs5 versus a 1vs2 by hitting the injectors and dealing with the enemies that could follow). It also allows to escape masslocks by injecting more often, or to take over other ships near stations and dock earlier, hence saving a few minutes here and there which can make a difference for long contracts. It's also useful together with my other OXP that modifies the behavior of missiles because one needs to hit injectors more often in order to avoid missiles.

The Moray Medical Boat can be fitted with a cargo bay extension, which is almost like changing the category of the ship. In my eyes, cargo bay extensions are an abomination, they should not exist. Variants with a bit more cargo space in exchange for something else are OK, but finding 20TC out of the blue is pure fantasy. The Moray Medical isn't the worst offender in this regard as it doesn't have 4 laser mounts like the standard Moray. Still, I'll probably come back later to deal with those magic cargo bay extensions and remove the fuel burning rate advantage for the Moray Medical.

Also sets the player Cobra Mk3 max speed to 300 (like NPCs). I'm not sure why the player Cobra has 350. Is it for masslocks, is it to give the player an advantage for the early game? Anyway, the speed difference is hard to justify and the original problem can certainly be solved more elegantly (masslocks -> variable masslocks for instance, early game -> less visible advantages like better shield regen rate or less laser heating...). Removed in version 1.1.


Last edited by Astrobe on Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Deadly
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Quote:
Small ships burn less fuel when using injectors:
- Adder: -40%
- Moray: -24%
- Cobra MK1: -10%
- Fer De Lance: -10%

Those ships have a small cargo bay so they are better used for contracts or bounty hunting than for trading or mining. An improved burning rate means that the player can be more confident when jumping to an unsafe system, because injectors are the main mean to escape dangerous situations (for instance turning a 1vs5 versus a 1vs2 by hitting the injectors and dealing with the enemies that could follow). It also allows to escape masslocks by injecting more often, or to take over other ships near stations and dock earlier, hence saving a few minutes here and there which can make a difference for long contracts. It's also useful together with my other OXP that modifies the behavior of missiles because one needs to hit injectors more often in order to avoid missiles.

The Moray Medical Boat can be fitted with a cargo bay extension, which is almost like changing the category of the ship. In my eyes, cargo bay extensions are an abomination, they should not exist. Variants with a bit more cargo space in exchange for something else are OK, but finding 20TC out of the blue is pure fantasy. The Moray Medical isn't the worst offender in this regard as it doesn't have 4 laser mounts like the standard Moray. Still, I'll probably come back later to deal with those magic cargo bay extensions and remove the fuel burning rate advantage for the Moray Medical.

Also sets the player Cobra Mk3 max speed to 300 (like NPCs). I'm not sure why the player Cobra has 350. Is it for masslocks, is it to give the player an advantage for the early game? Anyway, the speed difference is hard to justify and the original problem can certainly be solved more elegantly (masslocks -> variable masslocks for instance, early game -> less visible advantages like better shield regen rate or less laser heating...).
To each his own. I have no problem with the idea of cargo bay extensions. Cutting the speed of the player's main ship by 14% seems to me to be a massive game balance change, not just in the early game (where before you get injectors and an ECM, you're pretty much already dead in almost any dogfight except against the most anemic of adversaries) -- no thanks...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:35 pm 
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If you are traveling to the station and get mass-locked by a Mk3 going the same way as you, then you cannot overtake it without injectors, if both ships have the same maximum speed. You either get stuck with it or you have to do a lateral manoeuver to avoid it. Both options can be frustrating. As far as I can recall, that was the original reason for the speed difference.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Cutting the speed of the player's main ship by 14% seems to me to be a massive game balance change, not just in the early game (where before you get injectors and an ECM, you're pretty much already dead in almost any dogfight except against the most anemic of adversaries) -- no thanks...
I pondered the idea of removing it before release, as it is not really related to the main function of the OXP (but it's done in the same file as the rest). I left it in because other players see it that way, though. I'm play-testing it in an Adder which is one of the weakest ships in the game and yet I survived a few encounters with Ferdies, Asps, etc. so I inferred from this that it wouldn't dramatically affect the combat balance.

If more people find the main feature interesting but find the speed nerf is unwelcome, I certainly can remove it and make it a separate OXP that would include the other evil plans I've talked about.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:06 am 
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Location: [p]laying [h]ard and [k]icking [b]utt somewhere in G7...
Quote:
Also sets the player Cobra Mk3 max speed to 300 (like NPCs).
cim released [EliteWiki] Fair Cobra III which kind of does the opposite of bringing NPC's into line with the player ship.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:59 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
Also sets the player Cobra Mk3 max speed to 300 (like NPCs).
cim released [EliteWiki] Fair Cobra III which kind of does the opposite of bringing NPC's into line with the player ship.
So this is a direct conflict. Speed nerf removed, version 1.1 available.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:21 pm 
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I like the injectors idea very much. I would also add the Sidewinder, Krait and Gecko to that list, perhaps the Mamba as well. Take a look at the full list of default ships and check if you want to include anything else.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:26 pm 
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I like the injectors idea very much. I would also add the Sidewinder, Krait and Gecko to that list, perhaps the Mamba as well. Take a look at the full list of default ships and check if you want to include anything else.
Thanks! I didn't include these ships because they are (normally) not usable by players. On NPCs, I thought the burning rate didn't matter much since many of them are spawned will full fuel tank so you're very likely to run out of fuel before them in an "injectors pursuit" (speaking of, I wonder how this affects the ring racer event that comes with the Feudal systems OXP, IIRC). However, I do fill randomly the tanks of the ships I spawn in the Space Crowds OXP I've just beta-released. So it might make sense after all.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Thanks! I didn't include these ships because they are (normally) not usable by players.
Yeah, that makes sense but on the other hand there is that very handy OXP that make those ships available to the player, and if it's only a few more lines to include them then why not :D


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:07 am 
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Quote:
I'm play-testing it in an Adder which is one of the weakest ships in the game and yet I survived a few encounters with Ferdies, Asps, etc. so I inferred from this that it wouldn't dramatically affect the combat balance.
I've played a few broke adder games, and I found that an adder's profile is so small it can successfully dodge its way out of many fights even with its anemic speed. So not really the same thing...

I guess I would much prefer a "Fair Cobra" approach -- because not every ship you encounter is a Mk3.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:51 am 
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Thanks! I didn't include these ships because they are (normally) not usable by players.
Yeah, that makes sense but on the other hand there is that very handy OXP that make those ships available to the player, and if it's only a few more lines to include them then why not :D
Those ships are similar in terms of price (via Illicit Unlock), cargo capacity, size, and the fact they can't jump. So I'll go for -24% for them. Except for the Krait which is larger and can be fitted 3 lasers (via Norby's multiple lasers). It is quite scary so I'll give it a -10%.


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