Tech Shuffle

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

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Redspear
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Tech Shuffle

Post by Redspear »

Before I release this thing, a quick preview in case there are any consequences I hadn't thought of.

Image

Some thoughts on the elite equipment...


Escape Pod - was TL6, here TL2

Given that the more rewarding option was often to reload a recent saved game, I don't think it needs to be made very exclusive.


Fuel - was TL1, here TL6

Sun-skimming is actually pretty cool it just isn't very rewarding, this would make it an important gameplay element.
TL 6 might seem a bit high but it's not purely about installing something but also having the infrastructure to supply it - maybe it's not that easy.
I considered TL2 but that would make it very rare; maybe TL4 is better and I could bump the beam laser up to TL6?


Large Cargo Bay - was TL1, here TL11

Getting another 15TC out of the Cobra MkIII would appear to be no small feat. Even if were only optimisation of internal layout that would likely be specialist work. I think it may have been so low as it represented a smart early purchase to really pay off in the long term but I actually think the early game would have been better off without it.


ECM System - was TL2, here TL12

Based on captured Thargoid tech but available at TL2. Hmmm...
Missiles were more deasly in Elite IIRC, and in Oolite they're much less so. Having the player be without it a little more often is no bad thing IMHO and would help balance reducing it amongst pirates.


Military Laser - was TL10, here TL13

Not a big change, just using up more of the tech levels.
It's supposed to be top of the range, the latest new fangled what-not, so why not?


Galactic Hyperdrive - was TL10, here TL14

This one just feels right to me.
However far the player is jumping with one of these, it would appear to be a substantial old hop.
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Cholmondely »

Redspear wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:21 pm Before I release this thing, a quick preview in case there are any consequences I hadn't thought of.

Image

Some thoughts on the elite equipment...


Escape Pod - was TL6, here TL2

Given that the more rewarding option was often to reload a recent saved game, I don't think it needs to be made very exclusive.


Fuel - was TL1, here TL6

Sun-skimming is actually pretty cool it just isn't very rewarding, this would make it an important gameplay element.
TL 6 might seem a bit high but it's not purely about installing something but also having the infrastructure to supply it - maybe it's not that easy.
I considered TL2 but that would make it very rare; maybe TL4 is better and I could bump the beam laser up to TL6?


Large Cargo Bay - was TL1, here TL11

Getting another 15TC out of the Cobra MkIII would appear to be no small feat. Even if were only optimisation of internal layout that would likely be specialist work. I think it may have been so low as it represented a smart early purchase to really pay off in the long term but I actually think the early game would have been better off without it.


ECM System - was TL2, here TL12

Based on captured Thargoid tech but available at TL2. Hmmm...
Missiles were more deadly in Elite IIRC, and in Oolite they're much less so. Having the player be without it a little more often is no bad thing IMHO and would help balance reducing it amongst pirates.


Military Laser - was TL10, here TL13

Not a big change, just using up more of the tech levels.
It's supposed to be top of the range, the latest new fangled what-not, so why not?


Galactic Hyperdrive - was TL10, here TL14

This one just feels right to me.
However far the player is jumping with one of these, it would appear to be a substantial old hop.
Interesting ideas! I'd be tempted to just publish it and see what the feedback is...

I am curious about the effects of changing the TL for fuel - Personally, I feel that the storage of the fuel should be a major issue as I consider Quirium to be very dangerous. A higher TL reflects this, of course.

With Zaonce & Tionisla (TL12) so close to Lave and the Tionisla-Isinor milkrun, I can't see any significance of increasing the TL to any less than 13 (except for fuel). TL13 for the military laser will have an effect - as per my comments on your Weapon Laws (and my usual concluding dangerous pilgrimage to Biarge to buy military lasers...)
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Old Murgh »

Redspear wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:21 pm Some thoughts on the elite equipment...
I like a lot of your reasoning and would welcome most of the adjustments.

I think TL2 is far too low for the installation of an escape capsule (by your reasoning of Large Cargo Bay) which I would figure to be somewhat advanced tech and more sold to an affluent demographic, unless the TL2 escape capsules are likely death traps. If anything, those guys have homemade lifepods.

And I feel maybe TL6 is a bit too exclusive on the fuel, would lean to the TL4 or5.
–Unless there was a way for criminals to attack you over it (and a way to dump it in despair), then that would be a fun dynamic changer.
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Redspear »

Cholmondely wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:56 pm I am curious about the effects of changing the TL for fuel - Personally, I feel that the storage of the fuel should be a major issue as I consider Quirium to be very dangerous. A higher TL reflects this, of course.
It would likely make some systems 'no go' areas without either a fuel scoop, wormhole scanner or a 'devil may care' attitude. I like that however and think the maps could benefit from something less restrictive than a system being over 7LY from another.

Old Murgh wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:39 pm I think TL2 is far too low for the installation of an escape capsule (by your reasoning of Large Cargo Bay) which I would figure to be somewhat advanced tech and more sold to an affluent demographic
Well that would be key: what is an escape pod? Is it a simple matter of replacing the pilot's seat or must hatches and launching mechanisms be installed? Missiles for example (TL1) are presumably loaded onto pre-existing pylons. Like missiles but unlike the large cargo bay, escape pods can be reinstalled suggesting preexisting structures to support them (pylons or hatch and mechanism).

With regards to the demographic, TL isn't really about that to my mind, it's about supply much more than demand.

I could split the lasers up (pulse & beam).

Suppose pulse were TL 2 (much less useful in oolite) and beam TL 6 (hardly seems outrageous in either case). That would free up TLs 3 & 4. Put escape pod at 3 (minor concession), fuel scoops at 4 (freeing up TL 5) and fuel at 5 (again, a minor but not insignificant adjustment and having the tech to scoop fuel might be a prerequisite to being able to supply it).

That way TLs 1 & 2 would only be offering more of what the starting player already has: more missiles or another laser. New fangled stuff would only start at TL 3.

Hmmm... Thanks folks 🙂
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Cody »

Redspear wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:52 am... what is an escape pod? Is it a simple matter of replacing the pilot's seat or must hatches and launching mechanisms be installed?
Again, the ship's safe rears its ugly head.
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Redspear »

Cody wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:57 am Again, the ship's safe rears its ugly head.
Glorified moneybox/ashtray in the armrest 😜
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Cholmondely »

And then there is also the RemLock mask:
In space, everyone can hear you scream . . .
As long, that is, as you're equipped with a RemLok survival mask.
An instant after Alex Ryder hit the hard vacuum, a skin of plasFibre had been shot across his body from nozzles on the face piece, keeping him warm against the cold, tightening and protecting him, securing him against the void. The oxygen flow in his body was cut off to all but his heart and brain. Needle-doses of adrenalin and somnokie were held ready, just within the skin area of his mouth, ready to alert or depress his body functions according to circumstances.
And the RemLok screamed through space for help.
It was a standard survival device, an instantly recognisable distress call indicating that it was being sent out from a small, remotely located, dying body. The alarm screeched out on forty channels, shifting wavelength within each channel four times a second. One hundred and twenty chances to catch attention . . . (The Dark Wheel §2)
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Redspear »

Redspear wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:52 am Like missiles but unlike the large cargo bay, escape pods can be reinstalled...
Actually, that's not true.
Once you've used it any subsequent installation would be on a new ship.

So...


TL1 missile
TL2 pulse laser
TL3 fuel scoop
TL4 beam laser
TL5 fuel
TL6 escape pod
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by montana05 »

Redspear wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:52 am It would likely make some systems 'no go' areas without either a fuel scoop, wormhole scanner or a 'devil may care' attitude.
Actually, it is possible to block the player to jump to selected systems except certain conditions are met. I tried it more as an experiment and combined with a permit sender (equipment).
Scars remind us where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going.
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Cody »

Redspear wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:10 pmOnce you've used it any subsequent installation would be on a new ship.
Nah... once you've ejected, your old ship is salvaged, ported to the nearest station, refurbished, and given back to you.
That's why it takes so long for your escape pod to "reach" the station - they keep you on ice 'til your ship's ready!
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Redspear »

montana05 wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:15 pm
Redspear wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:52 am It would likely make some systems 'no go' areas without either a fuel scoop, wormhole scanner or a 'devil may care' attitude.
Actually, it is possible to block the player to jump to selected systems except certain conditions are met. I tried it more as an experiment and combined with a permit sender (equipment).
I don't doubt that but this way requires nothing additional, just a change in allocation of tech level.
It could even have been in the original elite without requiring even an additional byte (I think...)
It would also be self explanatory - fuel provison requires a certain tech level.

...Although with no wormhole sharing in Elite the player could have easily become stranded.
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Cholmondely »

More on Escape Pods

the cost includes insurance. Should not the cost of the pod relate to that of one's ship and the assembled accoutrements?
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Redspear »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:30 pm Should not the cost of the pod relate to that of one's ship and the assembled accoutrements?
Both phkb and I have been there before I think.

From my perspective: the case for simplicity.
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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Cholmondely »

Redspear wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:36 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:30 pm Should not the cost of the pod relate to that of one's ship and the assembled accoutrements?
Both phkb and I have been there before I think.

From my perspective: the case for simplicity.
BUT.

The cost of a new Cobra MkIII is 150,000₢ (base price). With the massive death rate due to piracy and thargoids, how does a one-off insurance premium of a fraction of 1000₢ go anywhere near covering the insurance payouts?
Among the seven trillion people who are - at least officially - Cooperative citizens, you are nobody. So far, anyway. You've got a ship, some weapons, and enough spare cash to get started - and one day, you might get the fame, wealth or glory you want. Perhaps one day, everyone might know your name. If, that is, you can survive that long.

The two thousand star systems of the Cooperative once enjoyed a golden age of peace and prosperity, and perhaps the wealthiest of them can still pretend to. The trade ships that once safely travelled between planets now have to be well armed and escorted to fend off pirate attacks, from small-time criminals desperate for their next meal, to powerful robber barons extracting tithes from everyone who passes through their space.

The Cooperative's police force, concentrated near a few influential planets, can no longer maintain order. The mercenaries they hire for a few credits a kill are too few, too unreliable to do so either. And in the darkness between the stars, an old enemy lurks, fearless, perhaps waiting for order to collapse entirely.

Good luck, Commander.

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Re: Tech Shuffle

Post by Redspear »

With respect, I think you might have missed the point.

(According to my model...)
GalCop profit every time a cargo cannister is bought AND (nearly) every time one is sold by trader and pirate alike.
They are raking it in as long as... There's a steady supply of traders.

Expert traders are tough and will (on average) make GalCop a great many credits per use of the escape pod.
Beginner traders much less so but without the latter you won't get the former... and meanwhile who's keeping the pirates away from those anaconda convoys? Thanks little guy!

So GalCop also polices some systems particularly well to encourage new traders to get started. They'll suffer your early losses as an investment to pay off over time.

Maybe you're a bounty hunter and don't have cargo space - no problem, you're thinning the pirates to help more of those novice traders make it through the ranks, so they'll subsidise you as well. And when you buy from their shipyards, they'll make money there too.

'Insurance' only covers parts (ship plus equipment but not installation) and so the well equipped ship ownner would still have to pay to have some things brought back on line as I explained (as if the equipment were owned but damaged).

The casino loses a great many bets and yet they remain extroadinarily rich because they always win even more. A cobra mk III is peanuts to them - especially when a significant chunk of that price would be the profit that they make by selling it in their shipyards.

If it still doesn't make sense then I'm sorry but I've tried to spell it out as best I can.
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