Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

An area for discussing new ideas and additions to Oolite.

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Pleb
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Pleb »

Ah...problem solved, thanks Thargoid!

Image

I've fixed this and reuploaded OXZ with this fix and previous fix about escorts affecting Griff's shipset. Also made sure Constrictors only appear after completing the Constrictor Hunt stock mission.

Download Test OXZ

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Pleb
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Pleb »

Okay well I seem to be heading towards the end of what I can currently do...there are probably a few smaller fixes concerning AI issues and there's probably some small bugs I haven't yet spotted (and maybe the percentage chances of encounters might need some tweaking), but after that what's really needed now are actual models/textures to be working with, to get a real feel of what the HIMSN will look like (hence why I have used stock models till now). Once we have some models and these have been integrated into this OXZ to replace the stock models being used, then I can start thinking about Phase 2. But I'd like to get Phase 1 completely sorted before even thinking about this.

So if anyone has anything to put forward or know's of anyone willing to help out with this I'd be very grateful. Essentially we have:
  • Asp
  • Sidewinder
  • Anaconda
  • Constrictor
  • Cruiser
  • Regional Base
  • Navy HQ
So it would be good to have models or re-textures for these ships first. Later we can add Destroyers, Carriers, etc... :)

EDIT: Just to clarify the encounter chances at the moment, there are 8 systems (1 per galaxy) that have a Regional Base, 3 patrols (50/50 chance of being heavy or light patrols) 1 on each route (routes are witchpoint-sun, sun-planet & planet-witchpoint), and a cruiser somewhere on a random route. There's one system (Zaeredre in G5) that has a Navy HQ, 3 patrols (50/50 chance of being heavy or light patrols) 1 on each route, and a cruiser somewhere on a random route. For all other systems, there's a 20% chance of a patrol (light/heavy) appearing on one of the three routes, a 10% chance of a cruiser being on one of the three routes, and a 10% chance (should this be 5%?) of a recon (constrictor) ship being on one of the three routes, but only if you have completed the Constrictor Hunt stock mission. In interstellar space, there's a 30% chance of 2 light patrols engaging a 4 thargoid ships, a 20% chance of 2 heavy escorts engaging 6 thargoid ships, and a 10% chance of a cruiser and her escorts engaging 8 thargoid ships. It should be noted that there are usually more thargoids than this anyway, as there are always a number in interstellar space anyway.

If anyone has any suggestions to make, please feel free to do so! :D

EDIT #2: Actually I've had an idea about maybe toning down the military presence in the Regional Base systems? Maybe keep the higher military presence that's already in the Zaeredre system, but make the Regional Base systems have random encounters like the normal systems, just slightly higher percentages than normal?

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

Ha... just saw your second edit. I was about to suggest something similar... and I'll have a ponder about those percentages.

One thought I had earlier: as a player approaches a base, a patrol might occasionly launch and hyperspace out.
The option to follow would be there for the player... probably to another system, or maybe to interstellar space?

Others' opinions are needed, but I favour reducing those percentages... sighting a Navy patrol should be an event.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by spara »

About the ships. How about using SimonB's redux ships? They are quite nice, quite true to the core shapes and there is a light destroyer there already. Unless, of course, there is a modeler/texturer who wants to do new ones :) .

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Pleb »

Cody wrote:One thought I had earlier: as a player approaches a base, a patrol might occasionly launch and hyperspace out.
The option to follow would be there for the player... probably to another system, or maybe to interstellar space?
This is possible, and I quite like this idea. I will implement this tonight, maybe make it a 10% or 20% chance of happening?
Cody wrote:Others' opinions are needed, but I favour reducing those percentages... sighting a Navy patrol should be an event.
I have thought about this as well. I'm going to change the percentages (for chance of appearing) overall I think and half them from what they are currently (except recon/constrictors, which I will put at 2.5%). I made them higher originally so it was easier to test, but they are appearing more often than I previously thought they would, so making them lower should help to make them all a rare occasion. I might leave the Interstellar ones alone though, as surely it would be more common to encounter the Navy in interstellar space than normal? Or should I lower these as well?
spara wrote:About the ships. How about using SimonB's redux ships? They are quite nice, quite true to the core shapes and there is a light destroyer there already. Unless, of course, there is a modeler/texturer who wants to do new ones :) .
Personally I don't really mind, although as the Griff ships are going to be the new core ships (and this is what I personally use, the shadrered ones though not the ones included in 1.79) it might make more sense to use re-textures of Griff's ships for the models that already exist (Asp, Sidewinder, Anaconda and Constrictor). Although I would want to get everyone else's opinion on this first, as I don't want to steer this in a direction that people are unhappy with. Better to get what everyone (or the majority) of what people want than to produce something people are not happy with! :mrgreen:

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

Pleb wrote:... as the Griff ships are going to be the new core ships (and this is what I personally use, the shadrered ones though not the ones included in 1.79) it might make more sense to use re-textures of Griff's ships for the models that already exist (Asp, Sidewinder, Anaconda and Constrictor).
<nods> It would maintain a more consistent Ooniverse. As for the Navy presence in IS, I'd favour that being pretty rare too.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Sendraks »

Cody wrote:<nods> It would maintain a more consistent Ooniverse. As for the Navy presence in IS, I'd favour that being pretty rare too.
I think big ass fleets (something I rarely see the Gal Navy do anyway), should be a very rare and impressive sight. A couple of Behomeths, half a dozen frigate size craft then a dozen or more fighters would be an eye widener for anyone encountering the IMSN.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

Pleb wrote:
Cody wrote:One thought I had earlier: as a player approaches a base, a patrol might occasionly launch and hyperspace out. The option to follow would be there for the player... probably to another system, or maybe to interstellar space?
This is possible, and I quite like this idea. I will implement this tonight, maybe make it a 10% or 20% chance of happening?
Even a normal system (without a base) W/P patrol might occasionly hyperspace out too - in fact, I reckon that would fit well.
The thing with percentages is 10% may sound rare, but when the player is making scores of jumps, it becomes too common.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Pleb »

Cody wrote:<nods> It would maintain a more consistent Ooniverse. As for the Navy presence in IS, I'd favour that being pretty rare too.
Okay well what if you have the following:

Navy HQ System (Zaeredre in G5):
  • 30% chance of having light/heavy patrols, one on each route.
  • 15% chance of having a cruiser and escorts on a random route.
  • 5% chance of having a recon ship (constrictor) on a random route (only after Constrictor Hunt stock mision has been completed).
  • 100% chance of there being a Navy HQ station.
Regional Base System (one per galaxy):
  • 20% chance of having light/heavy patrols, one on each route.
  • 10% chance of having a cruiser and escorts on a random route.
  • 2.5% chance of having a recon ship (constrictor) on a random route (only after Constrictor Hunt stock mision has been completed).
  • 100% chance of there being a Regional Base station.
All other systems:
  • 10% chance of having light/heavy patrols, one on each route.
  • 5% chance of having a cruiser and escorts on a random route.
  • 1% chance of having a recon ship (constrictor) on a random route (only after Constrictor Hunt stock mision has been completed).
Interstellar Space:
  • 20% chance of 2 light patrols fighting 4 thargoids (plus any other thargoids currently there).
  • 10% chance of 2 heavy patrols fighting 6 thargoids (plus any other thargoids currently there).
  • 5% chance of cruiser and escorts fighting 8 thargoids (plus any other thargoids currently there).
I think this would make the HIMSN a much rarer sight to behold? :)
Cody wrote:Even a normal system (without a base) W/P patrol might occasionally hyperspace out too - in fact, I reckon that would fit well.
I could make the patrol jump to witchspace after it's patrol is finished, that's certainly doable.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

Sounds cool - as the basic OXP is now up and running, we need to play with it for a while, see how those percentages feel in-game.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Diziet Sma »

Cody wrote:
Pleb wrote:
Cody wrote:One thought I had earlier: as a player approaches a base, a patrol might occasionly launch and hyperspace out. The option to follow would be there for the player... probably to another system, or maybe to interstellar space?
This is possible, and I quite like this idea. I will implement this tonight, maybe make it a 10% or 20% chance of happening?
Even a normal system (without a base) W/P patrol might occasionly hyperspace out too - in fact, I reckon that would fit well.
The thing with percentages is 10% may sound rare, but when the player is making scores of jumps, it becomes too common.
Well yes, but then, this is just one system per chart we're talking about.. unless the player makes it part of a milkrun (unlikely, IMO) they're not going to be there very often in the first place.. which is why I was going to suggest 20%..
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

Diziet Sma wrote:... this is just one system per chart we're talking about..
Only one system per chart will have a base, but...
Pleb wrote:All other systems:
  • 10% chance of having light/heavy patrols, one on each route.
  • 5% chance of having a cruiser and escorts on a random route.
  • 1% chance of having a recon ship (constrictor) on a random route (only after Constrictor Hunt stock mision has been completed).

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Diziet Sma »

Ahh.. but I thought we were specifically talking about:
Cody wrote:as a player approaches a base, a patrol might occasionly launch and hyperspace out.
And for that, I was thinking 20% would do nicely..
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

Ah well... for that specific circumstance, you're probably right, Diz.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by cim »

Pleb wrote:All other systems:
  • 10% chance of having light/heavy patrols, one on each route.
  • 5% chance of having a cruiser and escorts on a random route.
  • 1% chance of having a recon ship (constrictor) on a random route (only after Constrictor Hunt stock mision has been completed).
So, just thinking about this one a bit: the player will probably be in-system for about 30 minutes, and the patrol might take a couple of hours. This implies that for a 10% chance of the patrol being in system at the same time as the player, HIMSN probably runs one light/heavy patrol per system per day, on average, and one cruiser patrol every other day. Allowing for witchspace transit times, replacement of lost ships, drydock renovations, etc. that implies that HIMSN owns at least a few thousand cruisers and maybe a hundred thousand smaller ships of various descriptions.

On the one hand that's not a large force on the scale of a 7 trillion population 2 thousand system galaxy - though probably big enough to hit every Thargoid raiding pack fairly effectively; on the other hand it's still pretty big: the nine systems could probably support that force relatively easily - if they put a significant fraction of their productivity into military spending - but the logistics of keeping them all supplied when they're weeks of travel away from their regional base would be very complex, and the diplomacy needed to convince the other 2039 systems that free movement of someone else's major military forces through their systems was desirable would be even more so.

Maybe better to start by deciding (roughly) how many ships they have first, and then work out what that means for their strategy and distribution? (Though certainly, higher for testing makes a lot of sense!)


As a programming comment, I would strongly recommend, since it's 1.79-only anyway, using the new [wiki]Oolite_System_Populator[/wiki] to populate and repopulate systems with naval ships:
- lots of options for consistent but random-looking station placement, including being able to save the game at the naval station
- easier handling of interstellar space, nova systems, and systems other OXPs want to temporarily or permanently take over - and conversely, you can use it to partially or totally override normal system population in the naval HQ and regional base systems, which makes populating those a lot easier.
- you can use the repopulator to drop ships into the system in the middle of a trip between systems, launch patrols to witchspace or elsewhere from the naval base, and so on, so it's much less static: it'll be very rare, but the player may see a cruiser patrol arrive in-system ... and perhaps jump straight out again on their way to their destination.
- doesn't reroll the dice for patrol addition or replace destroyed naval bases every time the player launches from a station...

So, for example, the naval bases and patrols could be added (using the standard populator) with:

Code: Select all

this.systemWillPopulate = function()
{
	var patrolchance = 0.1;
	if ((system.ID == 150 && galaxyNumber == 0) ||
		(system.ID == 65 && galaxyNumber == 1) ||
		/* you get the idea */
		(system.ID == 104 && galaxyNumber == 7))
	{
		system.setPopulator("himsn-regional-base",
		{
			priority: 200,
			location: "PLANET_ORBIT",
			locationSeed: 89131914,
			groupCount: 1,
			callback: this._addRegionalBase,
			deterministic: true
		});
		patrolchance = 0.2;
	}


	if (Math.random() < patrolchance)
	{
		system.setPopulator("himsn-patrol",
		{
			priority: 210,
			location: "LANE_WPS",
			groupCount: 1,
			callback: this._addNavyPatrol
		});
	}
	// and so on for other groups to be added
}


this._addNavyPatrol = function (pos)
{
    // 50% chance patrol is heavy or light:
    var patrol;
    if (Math.random() < 0.5)
    {
        patrol = "himsn_heavy_patrol_leader";
    }
    else
    {
        patrol = "himsn_light_patrol_leader";
    }
    // Add a Navy Patrol to random location on one of the main routes:
    system.addGroup(patrol, 1, pos, 0);
}


this._addRegionalBase = function(pos)
{
	navyStation = system.addShips("himsn_station_regional",1,pos,0)[0];
    var targetVector = system.mainPlanet.position.subtract(navyStation.position).direction();
	// simpler way to point it at the planet
    navyStation.orientation = targetVector.rotationTo([0,0,1]);
    var navyStationGroup = system.addGroup("himsn_defender",3,pos, 2000);
    navyStationGroup.leader = navyStation;
	// you probably want to do this for consistency
	navyStationGroup.addShip(navyStation);
}
So the naval station will always be placed at planetary orbit position 89131914 when you enter the regional system, but that position's meaning will vary between regional systems: it will vary where it is relative to the sun, planet, witchpoint and main station. You could also put it at other more obscure named locations.

The patrols, meanwhile, just get dropped onto some part of the main routes: with their chance of being on each bit of the route, because of how LANE_WPS works, being proportional to the length of that route out of the total.

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