Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

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Neo
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Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Neo » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:52 am

Hi

Would it hurt the fun-factor of the game if players could purchase an Inter Galactic Hyperdrive, which would enable players to jump for example 50 - 60 light years - like it is possible using the Galactic Hyperdrive ?

I could imagine such an item to have stats like this:

Price: 2500CR - 3500CR
Tech level: 9
Number of jumps: 1

What do you all think about this ?

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by cim » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:42 am

There are a lot of missions - including two in the core game - which would be made considerably easier and less interesting by the availability of such a device. For that matter, there are quite a few OXP missions for which the ability to jump even 8LY rather than 7 would be a problem.

So I don't think this would be appropriate for the core game. There are OXPs which do something similar, though.

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Disembodied » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:44 am

I think the 7 light-year limit is pretty fundamental to the game, for all sorts of reasons. One of the things the developers are working on is bringing a greater sense of "geography" to the game, to make systems and even groups of systems feel distinct from each other: if it's possible just to leap over all intervening obstacles and go wherever you want at the press of a button, I think that would damage that sense of geography: everywhere would be reachable, pretty much, from everywhere else, and jump routes wouldn't matter. It would also spoil the sense of scale, I think. Even if the game clock was wound forward by a huge amount (2,500 hours for a 50-LY jump), the player wouldn't see that: it's just a number. Picking what planet to visit would be like choosing a name from a menu, rather than plotting a course.

But: the beauty of OXPs is that you can have what you want, and I can have what I want. If you (or anyone else) can OXP it, and want it, go ahead!

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Neo » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:35 am

Hi

I can see that such a device would be a problem to have if it makes certain missions to easy, however, I didn't gave that one single thought when I posted my suggestion as I was more interested in being able to carry cargo, parcels or passengers in an easier manner.

Now, I have come to think of it then I would say that being able to jump 50 - 60 light years would be way too much - it should like about 25 light years instead.

But then again; I understand that this would conflict with some of the missions so I do understand why it isn't going to happen in the core Oolite.

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Diziet Sma » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:36 am

Disembodied wrote:Even if the game clock was wound forward by a huge amount (2,500 hours for a 50-LY jump), the player wouldn't see that: it's just a number.
I dunno.. losing 3 months of game time just to jump 50LY would be a pretty good disincentive for most things.. :lol:
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Mad Dan Eccles » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:18 pm

I'd like to make a plea that anybody considering making such an abomination name it correctly: an intra-galactic hyperdrive.
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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Commander McLane » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:22 pm

Neo wrote:I can see that such a device would be a problem to have if it makes certain missions to easy, however, I didn't gave that one single thought when I posted my suggestion as I was more interested in being able to carry cargo, parcels or passengers in an easier manner.
And this is precisely why you do not want to make long jumps. On the contrary, you want to make your jumps as short as possible.

The reason is that you have a deadline in cargo, parcel, or passenger delivery, and jumps take time. To be precise: each jump takes the square of the distance in hours. Examples:
  • 1LY jump = 1 hour
  • 2LY jump = 4 hours
  • 3LY jump = 9 hours
  • 4LY jump = 16 hours
  • 5LY jump = 25 hours = 1 day and 1 hour
  • 6LY jump = 36 hours = 1 day and 12 hours
  • 7LY jump = 49 hours = 2 days and 1 hour
So, a 25LY jump, if it became possible, would take 25^2 hours = 625 hours = 26 days and 1 hour.

In other words: you have missed your deadline by weeks and get a huge penalty instead of making a profit.

And that's why the ability to make a really long jump is the one thing that you really, really don't want.

If you want to excel in the contract, parcel, and especially in the passenger business, make your jumps as short as possible, and therefore make as many jumps as possible in the direction of your destination. This will save you a lot of time, and may even get you a bonus for early delivery.

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Smivs » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:59 pm

Also remember the 'other best way' to save time is to avoid, well pretty much everything.
Make sure your ship has scoops, heat shielding and injectors, then when you set off on your contract and do the first jump head straight for the sun - you should be able to Torus immediately if you are not mass-locked - sunskim to re-fuel, and jump out as soon as your tank is full again - have the jump co-ordinates pre-set before you start sunskimming.
Using this method you avoid any problems and save a lot of time that you would otherwise waste in-system and docking.
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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Neo » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:36 am

Commander McLane wrote:
Neo wrote:I can see that such a device would be a problem to have if it makes certain missions to easy, however, I didn't gave that one single thought when I posted my suggestion as I was more interested in being able to carry cargo, parcels or passengers in an easier manner.
And this is precisely why you do not want to make long jumps. On the contrary, you want to make your jumps as short as possible.

The reason is that you have a deadline in cargo, parcel, or passenger delivery, and jumps take time. To be precise: each jump takes the square of the distance in hours. Examples:
  • 1LY jump = 1 hour
  • 2LY jump = 4 hours
  • 3LY jump = 9 hours
  • 4LY jump = 16 hours
  • 5LY jump = 25 hours = 1 day and 1 hour
  • 6LY jump = 36 hours = 1 day and 12 hours
  • 7LY jump = 49 hours = 2 days and 1 hour
So, a 25LY jump, if it became possible, would take 25^2 hours = 625 hours = 26 days and 1 hour.

In other words: you have missed your deadline by weeks and get a huge penalty instead of making a profit.

And that's why the ability to make a really long jump is the one thing that you really, really don't want.

If you want to excel in the contract, parcel, and especially in the passenger business, make your jumps as short as possible, and therefore make as many jumps as possible in the direction of your destination. This will save you a lot of time, and may even get you a bonus for early delivery.
Hi

I must say that I didn't know about this and how it works, so I learned something new - which is always great... :D
Smivs wrote:Also remember the 'other best way' to save time is to avoid, well pretty much everything.
Make sure your ship has scoops, heat shielding and injectors, then when you set off on your contract and do the first jump head straight for the sun - you should be able to Torus immediately if you are not mass-locked - sunskim to re-fuel, and jump out as soon as your tank is full again - have the jump co-ordinates pre-set before you start sunskimming.
Using this method you avoid any problems and save a lot of time that you would otherwise waste in-system and docking.
I haven't tried to refuel from sunskimming yet and wasn't aware of the benefit in terms of time saving, so that's something to give a try.

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Smivs » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:09 am

Neo wrote: I haven't tried to refuel from sunskimming yet and wasn't aware of the benefit in terms of time saving, so that's something to give a try.
Oh yes, lots of time to be saved!
Although the suns' distances from the witchpoint vary, torus-ing to the sun should only take a few minutes at best, and the sunskimming process is quick as well.
The best sunskimming approach is to fly directly at the centre of the sun and then when it masslocks you hit the injectors (if you have any fuel left). As soon as the scoops start working, angle up to aim at the 'horizon' - the corona area of the sun - staying on injectors as the scoops work faster that way.
As soon as the fuel tank is full flip over to put the sun directly behind you to get away as quickly as possible. If you have your next jump pre-set, start the countdown before the tank is full, and you will then jump as soon as possible with the full tank.
This obviously avoids all the traffic in-system although you may occassionally get masslocked by another ship near the sun if others are sunskimming as well.
Also, remember that just docking takes time, so you avoid that as well. The Docking computer when used 'normally' takes as long as it takes to dock you, and 'Insta-dock' adds 20 minutes to the game clock.
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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Commander McLane » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:28 am

Smivs wrote:Also, remember that just docking takes time, so you avoid that as well. The Docking computer when used 'normally' takes as long as it takes to dock you, and 'Insta-dock' adds 20 minutes to the game clock.
And launching adds 10 minutes, which cannot be avoided.

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Neo » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:10 am

@Smivs

I have tried to sunskim, based on your explanation, and must say that it was an absolute hassle free experience - I haven't done this since my "Elite days" on the good old C64.

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Disembodied » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:34 am

Other things that costs time: fitting and repairing onboard equipment, and getting your maintenance overhaul. If you're really pressed, you can sometimes have to choose between repairing some piece of kit, or making the delivery on time ...

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Re: Inter Galactic Hyperdrive - suggestion

Post by Smivs » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:58 am

Neo wrote:@Smivs

I have tried to sunskim, based on your explanation, and must say that it was an absolute hassle free experience - I haven't done this since my "Elite days" on the good old C64.
Excellent! Happy to be of help. :)
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