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 Post subject: Docking fees revisited
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:28 pm 
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A long time ago (almost a decade, from the looks of things!) there was some talk about adding docking fees to stations. See this thread for more: http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2740

Anyhow, I can't find any evidence that it ever went further than a few suggestions and never seems to have been implemented either in the furs.oxp mentioned or anywhere else. Has this ever been an oxp feature? Is there anyone who's added docking fees to Oolite in any form?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:30 pm 
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As far as I know this was never implemented. Could be interesting/and or annoying. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:44 pm 
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If it's a tiny fee, it's hardly worth doing because once you have a few tens of thousands in the bank it doesn't make any difference. I guess you can mentally amortize ship repairs & pretend that's a docking fee.

If it's a large fee, it'll really kill those new Jamesons just trying to make a few credits to get going. I mean, you only get pait 2 or 3 credits/ton for hauling food 6.8 lightyears! Do you have any idea what that is per ton mile? Yeah, now I have to pay more than I made just to dock & sell it? Just no.

Pay a % of your bank account every time you dock? Oh, Lord. I can only imagine who might think that would be a good idea.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:57 pm 
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Quote:
If it's a tiny fee, it's hardly worth doing because once you have a few tens of thousands in the bank it doesn't make any difference. I guess you can mentally amortize ship repairs & pretend that's a docking fee.

If it's a large fee, it'll really kill those new Jamesons just trying to make a few credits to get going. I mean, you only get pait 2 or 3 credits/ton for hauling food 6.8 lightyears! Do you have any idea what that is per ton mile? Yeah, now I have to pay more than I made just to dock & sell it? Just no.

Pay a % of your bank account every time you dock? Oh, Lord. I can only imagine who might think that would be a good idea.
This.

Though it could be ok with a small fee... for immersion. 5-10 credits or something.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:21 am 
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Quote:
Though it could be ok with a small fee... for immersion. 5-10 credits or something.
This is exactly right, it's immersion. Everything that adds a touch more realism to the world makes things a bit more interesting, and I never begrudged the small docking fees in Frontier, and as has been pointed out, even some of the earlier versions of original Elite had docking fees.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:59 am 
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Code:
// oolite.oxp.Layne.DockingFees

this.name = "Docking Fees";
this.version = "1.0";

this.shipDockedWithStation = function () {
    player.credits -= (player.credits * 0.05);
}
There you go. Let us know how you enjoy it.


Last edited by Wildeblood on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:35 am 
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Quote:
Code:
// oolite.oxp.Layne.DockingFees

this.name = "Docking Fees";
this.version = "1.0";

this.shipDockedWithStation = function () {
    player.credits -= (payer.credits * 0.05);
}
There you go. Let us know how you enjoy it.

Having corrected your typo in the code, and amended it to a fixed fee based on system tech level (at 1/2 the tech level plus .5 credits) and not an outrageously high percentage, and added a console message to welcome commanders and say a small fee has been deducted, I like it very much in-deed.
Code:
// oolite.oxp.Layne.DockingFees

this.name = "Docking Fees";
this.version = "1.0";

this.shipDockedWithStation = function () {
    player.credits -= (system.techLevel * 0.5 + 0.5),
    player.consoleMessage("Welcome Commander! A docking fee of " + (system.techLevel * 0.5 + 0.5) + " credits has been deducted.", 7);
}
Tested and seems to work in 1.80.

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Last edited by Layne on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:09 am 
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Quote:
Having corrected your typo in the code...
Oops, unintentional that was.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:59 am 
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I love this idea!

A couple of suggestions in the following code. (1) Check the player credit balance before deducting something. If the player doesn't have enough to cover the fee we can assume that the station has a lenient attitude to taking the fee. (2) Have some variation in the fee at different stations. I've put a few in, but there are probably others that could be included, and what happens to the fee can be adjusted as well.

You could also change the voice of the station by storing different message texts in a descriptions.plist file. That way, a mining outpost can sound different to a rockhermit or a space bar.
Code:
// oolite.oxp.Layne.DockingFees

this.name = "Docking Fees";
this.version = "1.0";

this.shipDockedWithStation = function (station) {
    
    // work out fee based on system tech level and station type
    // default for galcop stations (and any other station that is not covered in the examples below
    var fee = (system.techLevel * 0.5 + 0.5);
    if (station.hasRole("rockhermit")) fee = 0; // rockhermits are free
    if (station.hasRole("constore")) fee *= 2; // con stores are a bit more expensive
    if (station.hasRole("random_hits_any_spacebar")) fee *= 1.5; // space bars are a little bit more expensive
    if (station.hasRole("rrs_group_spacestation")) fee = 0; // rescue stations are free
    if (station.hasRole("casinoship")) fee *= 2; // casinos are a bit more expensive
    if (station.hasRole("wildShips_kiota")) fee *= 1.5; // kiota ships are a little bit more expensive
    if (station.hasRole("rrs-mining-outpost")) fee = 0; // mining outposts are free
    if (station.hasRole("smivs_pizza_giftshop")) fee = 0; // space-pizza gift shop charges a fee of its own    

    // make sure the player has enough credits
    if (fee > 0) {
        if (player.credits > fee) {
            player.credits -= fee;
            player.consoleMessage("Welcome Commander! A docking fee of " + fee + " credits has been deducted.", 7);
        } else {
            player.consoleMessage("Welcome Commander! We've waived the docking fee this time.", 7);
        }
    } 
}
Edit: Corrected a couple of errors in the code (one highlighted by Wildeblood, the other a missing comment marker).

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Last edited by phkb on Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:53 am 
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You already get charged an entrance fee if you visit a Giant Space Pizza visitor centre. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:20 am 
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Edited post to add space pizza option.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:22 am 
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The point remains unsolved: If I own a Million, what should docking fees of 7 credits be good for?
100Cr. would be sensible, but joung Jamesons can not afford it.

Oolite Economy is a stupid thing. In reality, you would be raised on the planet, get your pocket money as a child, later with your first joy you get some real money. The expenses grow with the income, so does your understanding, how the money business works. Imagine a potential pilot. He would raise a fortune of 100.000 Cr. to pay for a beginners ship. I would imagine, that by the time he was able to earn that much, he knows a lot more about economy. He would add up to his resources until he owns 150.000Cr, to be able to a) equip his ship with some cheap but important gadgets and b) earn money by traing. No one sensible would start a trading career with just 1000Cr in the purse, just to learn that he is not able to buy vital thinks like an injector no be able to earn any money.

This said, I would not miss the early phase of the game.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:37 am 
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Quote:
The point remains unsolved: If I own a Million, what should docking fees of 7 credits be good for?
100Cr. would be sensible, but joung Jamesons can not afford it.
Which is why I suggested a 5% wealth tax, rather than a fixed fee.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:40 am 
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Quote:
Code:
this.shipDockedWithStation = function () {
    
    var station = player.ship.dockedStation;
    ...
    } 
WTH?
Code:
this.shipDockedWithStation = function (station) {
    ...
    } 


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:49 am 
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Quote:
Edited post to add space pizza option.
Thanks - it's a rip-off anyway without extra charges :P
On a general point some mission stations would probably not charge a fee either, so I think your approach of actively listing stations is a better one than a broad brush 'charge everywhere' fee.
I do like this idea, BTW. It won't be a money-sink (which is something the game needs for established Commanders), but will certainly add some ambience. Good work. :)

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