Fuel Scooping

An area for discussing new ideas and additions to Oolite.

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Redspear
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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Redspear »

Another one would be to have some systems uninhabited.
I like this idea, a good way to deal with the damaged scoops issue would be to spawn a fairly regular flow of NPCs traffic that would skim then jump. A stranded player would just have to wait/survive long enough for one of these ships to create a wormhole.
That could work...

Yet another option is to give a chance for equipment repair when in fuel scooping range. Not the expensive stuff but say ECM, fuel injectors maybe even the scoops themselves. Why? Well, suppose exposure to an extreme energy source could occasionally 'jump-start' their systems were they to be off-line (damaged).

Having your first few pieces of equipment be damaged is both common and rather tough on the starting pilot. As I've mentioned before, it's not like elite where you wouldn't get equipment damage until energy low. Perhaps it could (sometimes) repair as high as an extra energy unit. That could save the pilot a whopping 750 (?) credits but if they'd already made the 1,500 + to pay for the thing in the first place...

As I imagine it there would be a good chance to save some of the cheaper equipment but no guarantee. There might even be a smaller chance of overloading the damaged item (destroying it). As for pilots having too much money as it is, if you have the money then the convenience of getting (what would now be very cheap relative to the pilots funds) the equipment fixed at the station, with guaranteed success would often still be prefereable.

Ship been crippled? Funds low? Maybe you could head for the sun with a chance to get some of your cheaper systems functioning again
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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Stormrider »

GadflyBee wrote: Selling fuel sounds great to me -- speaking as a miner, I sure wouldn't mind another way of making small bits of money incredibly slowly...
Well there is an alpha OXP that allows for this, link on this page.
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f= ... 09#p248637

I haven't really tested it so I don't know how well it works, but just glancing through the some of the files it appears to be a fairly well thought out and complete oxp.
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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Astrobe »

Solar Harvest works for the most part. From memory, you get some errors/warnings in the logs about traffic IIRC. The fuel skimming/selling works.

Another idea that's on my todo list is to have the fuel scoops act as a 1LY (or something like that) fuel tank that can only be refueled by skimming. This extra fuel automatically refills your main tank if it's not empty (explanation: some fuel remains in the pipes of the scoops that get "sucked" by the main tank). This could become really interesting combined with an increased need for fuel injection; for instance with OXPs that make missiles more threatening (see the "Thoughts on missiles" thread here).

As for station fuel prices I think that it already depends on the ship, but it is barely noticeable. I believe that if one wants to make sun skimming interesting, a strategy could be to combine various bonus/malus:
  • Delays for launching and docking (already mentioned). Something between 10 minutes to 30 minutes, perhaps depending on how busy is the station. I think for long courier/PAX runs it could make a difference.
  • sun skimming giving some extra "security" fuel (see above) that could also be used to execute "double-jumps" is the situation allows.
  • Docking fees based on cargo capacity and system properties. This is more or less equivalent to making fuel more expansive (if you always buy at stations). That's something I have somewhere on my disk.
  • I also have a hacked version of Wildships that places one extra station near the sun. Wildship's stations often feature interesting prices, so going there to buy stuff makes it interesting to skim fuel instead of buying it.
  • The idea of separate fuel stations (not always on the other side on the planet though) looks interesting.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by phkb »

In the interests of fostering discussion and experimentation, I give you FuelTweaks.zip. This OXP does a couple of things: (1) Fuel is no longer available at the main station, but via fly-thru refueling stations located 20km away from the main station. Some systems won't have these facilities, and in those instances only an emergency ration of 1ly is available for purchase. Any non-GalCop station will still have fuel for purchase. (2) Skimmed fuel from the sun can be loaded into special fuel containers and sold for profit. I've worked on a ratio of 1ly = 1t of fuel. You need the Quirium Fuel Processor plus any additional fuel storage containers. Filling of these containers occurs after your fuel tank is full.

Feedback welcome of cause, but this is really designed as a discussion starter rather than a fully fledged OXP.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Day »

phkb wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:31 am
Feedback welcome of cause, but this is really designed as a discussion starter rather than a fully fledged OXP.
As a player, I generally like the plentiful access to fuel. But I would welcome a fuel scarcity, for the scenario and difficulty it would generate.

Now, this couldn't be everywhere for a very long time in the Ooniverse, because the galactic economy would self-implode in less than a month.

So... Would it be possible to have some systems with fuel scarcity, and other systems with plenty of fuel?

And could this be scriptable by other oxps?

I would very much like to implement this in Diplomacy, so as to make fuel scarce in war zones, and plentiful elsewhere.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by CmdrGumbo »

phkb wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:31 am
In the interests of fostering discussion and experimentation, I give you FuelTweaks.zip. This OXP does a couple of things: (1) Fuel is no longer available at the main station, but via fly-thru refueling stations located 20km away from the main station. Some systems won't have these facilities, and in those instances only an emergency ration of 1ly is available for purchase. Any non-GalCop station will still have fuel for purchase. (2) Skimmed fuel from the sun can be loaded into special fuel containers and sold for profit. I've worked on a ratio of 1ly = 1t of fuel. You need the Quirium Fuel Processor plus any additional fuel storage containers. Filling of these containers occurs after your fuel tank is full.

Feedback welcome of cause, but this is really designed as a discussion starter rather than a fully fledged OXP.
That's quite a nice idea! Some feedback on my behalf: I'd prefer it if certain parts of that OXP could be tweakable, e.g. the amount of emergency fuel available or be able to do some fine tuning regarding the availability fuel stations ('tweaking the scattering'). But the general approach of this one is pretty good. Harvesting engery from the sun and being able to sell it is a feat that is painfully missing. Depending on how much the total cost for the needed equiment is, the revenue should be kept in balance with the one you get from asteroid mining. Again, being able to tweak such options would be a nice feature as well.

EDIT: I've given the OXP a try and in general, it's pretty cool. However, depending on your strategy (and patience), having to go to another station nearby just to refuel after already having docked to and having attended business at the main station can become a bit of an annoyance. Again, it would be cool if this would be tweakable (e.g. having extra fuel stations vs. implementing (1) directly into the main (GalCop) stations).

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by phkb »

Version 1.1 the FuelTweaks OXP is now available. Heeding all the advice about "tweaking", the OXP is now fully tweakable, either by playing with settings in the "fuelTweaks_fuelEconomy.js" file, or by using Javascript functions. Here's some of the possibilities:

  • Have normal fuel available at some stations, have rations at others, and no fuel at all in other systems.
  • The amount of fuel ration available for purchase can be set from 0ly to 4ly.
  • Application of rules can be by economy, government and techlevel, or on a per-system basis.
  • Cost of fuel through a refuelling station can be varied by economy, government and techelevel, or by setting it on a per-system basis.
  • Entire fuel system can be reverted to normal fuel operations with one flag.

Hopefully these options will allow for a simple control mechanism that other OXP's (eg Diplomacy) can use to their benefit.

For this version I've turned the default settings to be in the "off" position, so you should be able to install this OXP without it having any impact on the game. No refuelling stations, no rations, just vanilla fuel purchasing. The Quirium fuel scooping system is still in place, though.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by CmdrGumbo »

phkb wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:25 am
Version 1.1 the FuelTweaks OXP is now available. Heeding all the advice about "tweaking", the OXP is now fully tweakable, either by playing with settings in the "fuelTweaks_fuelEconomy.js" file, or by using Javascript functions. Here's some of the possibilities:

  • Have normal fuel available at some stations, have rations at others, and no fuel at all in other systems.
  • The amount of fuel ration available for purchase can be set from 0ly to 4ly.
  • Application of rules can be by economy, government and techlevel, or on a per-system basis.
  • Cost of fuel through a refuelling station can be varied by economy, government and techelevel, or by setting it on a per-system basis.
  • Entire fuel system can be reverted to normal fuel operations with one flag.

Hopefully these options will allow for a simple control mechanism that other OXP's (eg Diplomacy) can use to their benefit.

For this version I've turned the default settings to be in the "off" position, so you should be able to install this OXP without it having any impact on the game. No refuelling stations, no rations, just vanilla fuel purchasing. The Quirium fuel scooping system is still in place, though.
Thank you very much for your effort! If I understand correctly, by default the OXP adds the Quirium fuel scooping system and the ability to harvest and sell energy scooped off the sun?! Great! I've always thought it'd be nice if one could scoop fuel into the ship's tanks as well as distribute it for commercial reasons.
Last edited by CmdrGumbo on Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Day »

Whooowooowooo !!

I'll add it to Diplomacy asap.
(I mean, when the "State of war" is implemented, which should be soon. Well, soon enough.).

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Day »

phkb wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:25 am
  • Have normal fuel available at some stations, have rations at others, and no fuel at all in other systems.
  • The amount of fuel ration available for purchase can be set from 0ly to 4ly.
  • Application of rules can be by economy, government and techlevel, or on a per-system basis.
  • Cost of fuel through a refuelling station can be varied by economy, government and techelevel, or by setting it on a per-system basis.
  • Entire fuel system can be reverted to normal fuel operations with one flag.
In Diplomacy, I plan to use all of these depending on state of war, recently attacked system, and player home system :p

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by phkb »

CmdrGumbo wrote: I've always thought it'd be nice if one could scoop fuel into the ship's tanks as well as distribute it for commercial reasons.
Here's a question, though. Let's say I've bought enough fuel containers to scoop 3t of Quirium (1t = 10LY, and feel free to let me know if this ratio should be different). Should I be allowed to transfer fuel back to my main tank from these containers? At the moment you can't - I thought this would be kind of an exploit. But is it? Maybe if there was some loss in the transfer (ie, you can only transfer an entire fuel container, losing whatever difference there might be between your current fuel load and the contents of the fuel container). What do you think?

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Cody »

Should I be allowed to transfer fuel back to my main tank from these containers?
Volatile stuff, is quirium - wouldn't there be some risk involved?

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by phkb »

Cody wrote:wouldn't there be some risk involved?
So you run the risk of equipment damage during the transfer? That would certainly be worth considering.

I'm also thinking that it wouldn't be an instantaneous transfer - 0.1ly per 3 secs or something like that, with a chance of damage on each iteration.
Last edited by phkb on Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Cody »

So you run the risk of equipment damage during the transfer?
That - or if the dread god Finagle is on the job, a total wreck?

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by phkb »

Cody wrote:
So you run the risk of equipment damage during the transfer?
That - or if the dread god Finagle is on the job, a total wreck?
And an auto-eject if an escape pod is fitted? Oh yeah.

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