EBs

An area for discussing new ideas and additions to Oolite.

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Energy Bombs..

are Elite legacy written in stone, to be left as they are..
2
10%
could use some modification, though nothing this extreme..
6
29%
should go along these spot-on suggestions..
13
62%
 
Total votes: 21

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Murgh
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Post by Murgh »

a scanner representation like that would be very nice. knowing where to run away from seems a must.

galactic treaties or not, if the scanner can identify it, it's all the warning anyone could expect. the delay before the boom is as much for the benefit of the agressor as the victim..

one would think shooting it would be a bad idea :shock:

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Post by GusGus »

Murgh wrote:one would think shooting it would be a bad idea :shock:
How about fuel scooping it? :roll:

if they are timed, I would like to set the fuse myself. "5 seconds until Armageddon" :twisted:

What about a ship upgrade that made you able to know the time left. "Energy bomb scanner enchanter"

How about an energy bomb disarming kit. all you have to do is fuel scoop it... :wink:

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Post by aegidian »

Darkbee wrote:I assume that it'd show up on the scanner? Maybe as a flashing white and red line?

...

I would say that you shouldn't need an upgrade to detect an energy bomb my case would be: ...
Agreed, although I'd favour an expanding sphere and oval (where it intersects y==0) in the scanner.
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Post by GusGus »

the way I think the EB should show up on the radar is a flashing "missile" blue and red dot. And I think an EB would deserve a continuos siren, and "WARNING, ENERGY BOMB DETECTED" over your screen. maybe a ship upgrade would give you the time remaining for detected EBs. The ship deploying an EB should get the time remaining the same way as the witchspace countdown.

would you be able to make it explode prematurely by using the ECM system? then using EB would be really dangerous to the user.

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Post by stevesims »

This idea for a revised energy bomb is most interesting.

I'd always assumed though that the reason you were safe from the energy bomb explosion was because you were at the epicentre of the device - a bit like being in the eye of a tornado. Thus any ship can have an energy bomb fitted and be safe from it's effect. The idea of dropping a bomb package seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

The idea of allowing ships to run away from the explosive wave of an energy bomb seems really cool though, as does the idea of having non-player ships carrying and deploying them.

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Post by Darkbee »

aegidian wrote:
Darkbee wrote:I assume that it'd show up on the scanner? Maybe as a flashing white and red line?

...

I would say that you shouldn't need an upgrade to detect an energy bomb my case would be: ...
Agreed, although I'd favour an expanding sphere and oval (where it intersects y==0) in the scanner.
I can see your point about the expanding sphere but can it be done? (naturally, I assume it can but what I really mean is, can it be done easily?) Secondly, will it look ok or just end up turning the scanner into an unreadable mess?
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Post by aegidian »

Darkbee wrote:I can see your point about the expanding sphere but can it be done? (naturally, I assume it can but what I really mean is, can it be done easily?)
Relatively easily, yes, look at the new graphics for transmissions for example.
Darkbee wrote:Secondly, will it look ok or just end up turning the scanner into an unreadable mess?
That I don't know, but I can test it out and see. Later.
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Post by Mad Dan Eccles »

aegidian wrote:Relatively easily, yes, look at the new graphics for transmissions for example.
Which are GREAT!
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Post by AJ »

I've always kinda liked the look of the suns in this game (even the old incarnations with the skanky graphics)

I mention this because it would be kinda cool if the energy bomb looked a bit like a new sun. A rapidly expanding new sun.

Nice if it faded in visual intensity and actual damage done as it expanded, so that it the full range of its destructive power it does very little damage.

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Post by richiethom »

I was always particularly impressed by the seismic charges deployed against Ewen McGregor's OB1 Kenobe character in one of the Star Wars Prequels.

In that, I think there was a spherical explosion that you wanted to avoid getting caught in, but there was also a kind of ring of fire which expanded more rapidly than the sphere.

What about having one of those as well? So if you're caught by the expanding sphere, you're destroyed, but you're also destroyed if you're sliced through by the expanding ring (much less likely).

In addition, they did a really cool thing with the sound in that prequel - when the seismic charge detonated, the soundtrack was muted for about 1 second - it worked so well! Possible for Oolite?

Am I getting carried away about what can be done on a Mac compared with what can be rendered on a Linux render farm over a period of days? :shock:

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Post by aegidian »

Okay.

I implemented the new version of the Energy Bomb today, but it has some problems so I could use your advice.

It launches a small pod from the rear of your ship, and immediately kicks you up to top speed. After five seconds the pod explodes and the cloud of destruction expands rapidly, at .300LS a ship can just stay ahead of the 'destruct-horizon'.

The expanding cloud takes 20 seconds to fill out and disperse in which time it destroys pretty much everything within a 8km radius of 'point-zero'.

Here's the problem then, an 8km radius is much less than the 25.6km radius of the old energy bomb. The new bomb could reach the same radius, but it'd take at least a minute to do so, any faster and your ship couldn't outrun the blast.

Basically, as it stands, it'd only be good for taking out enemies close to the rear of your ship.

What should I do from here?

EDIT: I found a whizbang solution. Large ships blown up by an energy bomb start a secondary energy blast, so that chain reactions can rapidly occur through a close packed field of ships. In battles with thargoids and thargons this can be particularly effective. With this change I'm happy to test the new energy bomb in the next test release (v1.44).
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Post by stevesims »

I must admit that I'm in two minds about this new energy bomb idea.

Being an old space dog I am very fond of the old energy bomb. I like it, the way it works, and would like to see it stay in the game.

This new energy bomb sounds like a completely different weapon to me. As such it is fine, but it's not an "energy bomb" in the Elite sense.

I had an image in my mind of the traditional energy bomb being a super-ECM, and was very comfortable with the fact that it's effects were felt instantly to the limit of the radar. I was happy with the fact that it's a one-shot device and would be gone after use.

I do understand the feeling that it's too powerful, and it's a little unfair that the player is the only person with access to this super weapon. I don't know what to say about that besides the Elite fan in me really doesn't want to see the old bomb go.

This new bomb in contrast seems to be a kind of mine with a timer rather than a proximity fuse. As described it's significantly less powerful than the old energy bomb (even with cascading explosions), and since people can run away from it also potentially much less useful.

What I'd really like to see is both weapons, with the new "bomb" reclassified as a type of mine. I would have no objections to the energy bomb being made significantly more expensive and less accessible.

I'd suggest that you need to buy a mine-layer add-on to be able to use mines, and this should take up some cargo space. (Mines are more sensitive pieces of equipment than cargo, so the cargo dumping mechanism probably isn't appropraite for their deployment.) I'd also suggest that you should be able to carry more than one mine, with the number potentially dependant on your type of ship, the number of mine-layer attachments you've purchased, or both.

An obvious extension to this would be proximity mines, and the ability to cycle through the mines you're carrying. Another type could be a disabling mine which, when coupled with a tractor beam and airlock, would allow you to take posession of another ship (transfer to it). You could also potentially fire a "control drone missile" at a disabled ship which could slave that ship to your own and force it to act as an AI-driven escort.

I don't mean to be too critical here. I like the idea of this new bomb very much, but I just don't see it as an "energy bomb".

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Post by Mad Dan Eccles »

I like the idea and am looking forward to Friday. Steve makes some good comments, but we - well, Giles - has to wonder how slavishly Oolite is going to follow Elite. I'm not convinced that the old-style energy bomb is worth keeping. It is a superweapon, and we do have escape pods, after all. . .
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Post by Murgh »

I agree. short of being kept on as a mythically rare weapon for special mission purposes, noone should be able to just turn on a boombox that powerful. the slightly reduced blast radius sounds to me like good news.

it's looking like Old Space Dogs will soon be able to revisit Elite-Strict (Oolimited), so it shouldn't be too painful a loss, eh?

I'm really looking forward to friday. :shock:

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Post by Darkbee »

Be honest... how many times have you ever used the energy bomb in combat? One person made a comment that they used it once, in Elite, just to see what it was like and I think that pretty much sums up the current energy bomb. It never gets used because it kills not only everyone in the vacinity but also the gameplay.

I'm usually equipped with one, myself, but most of the time I forget to use it OR neglect to use it. I've never really figured out why I don't use it but the more I think about it, the more I think that it is because (as I stated) it kills the gameplay and just isn't fun to use. I think the new proposed model will be more fun to use.

One final loose analogy... Grand Theft Auto III had a cheatmode that would blow up all the vehicles in the nearby area. Sounds to me like the current Energy Bomb model is more like a cheatmode!
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