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 Post subject: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Hi,
Looked into mods, did not found appropriate one. Maybe exists or in development?

I am not satisfied with the fact that you remain clean if your the only revenue is robbery.So that the game becomes just dumb flying from star to star and attacking Pitons and Boas.This wasn't so at Sinclair AFAIK.

Suggestions.

0. Too rich cargo, gold and gems every time . "Damn food again" at Sinclair.You become rich too fast.

1.You become Offender when you attach clean ship at any place and the police comes to protect the victim (if available and not buzy at the system).Once you shot police , you become Fugitive. Maybe exclusion should be Feudal and Anarchy planets.

2. There could be a number of unions in the Galaxy, so that you can join one ,have different legal status for different unions. Rob enemy's ships, participate blocades , battles etc., get money for this.One of variants - join pirate gang to rob everyone. You can rob at enemy system, recharge fuel at the star and return to yours.

3.Now you become strongest in the world too fast.You almost should be not able to take convoy alone and travel alone to dangerous planets without being killed.So that join convoys to trade or wolfpacks to rob.The wolfpack ,like now,could include fighters and a Piton to collect cargo, revenue is divided. Woflpack tactics could be implemented : patrolling areas and calling the rest when a convoy is detected.

4.AI of convoys. Now they allow to unknown ship to come to close position at 6 of trader.At least warning should be.

5. Anti-laser maneuvers, yours and enemy's. Should be adequate to enemy skills and ship type. Now random, a Piton sometimes hits you regardless how do you fly.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Welcome to the forums digger. This comes up from time to time but you seem to have missed the vastness of space and how few Police patrol the spacelanes - even in a Corporate State.

You only become an offender/fugitive if the Police see you perform the act. The ship you're attacking may scream out a Mayday but if the Police don't come to its rescue before you crack it open then that's it. Tough. An analogy is speeding, lots of people do it all the time, but unless the police or the cameras catch you - no speeding ticket.

If you want to make Oolite more difficult - then everytime you die - start again at Lave with 100Cr and a new pilot. Many of your suggestions would just introduce a regular "Press Space Commander" moment and after a few of those, frustration kicks in and people take out all the additional stuff you wanted to put in. At the end of the day, Oolite should be fun, challenging, entertaining and fun.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Quote:
If you want to make Oolite more difficult - then everytime you die - start again at Lave with 100Cr and a new pilot.
...or install OSE ;)
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6153

About the unions to join: The feudal states do seek knights for their own worlds and Ionics, Assassins and Random Hits provide some interesting groups to join, too!

Screet


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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:26 pm 
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Quote:
0. Too rich cargo, gold and gems every time . "Damn food again" at Sinclair.You become rich too fast.
I certainly didn't have this problem. I get far more in the way of food/textiles dropping from cargo than I do gold or silver. Ofc - as there is so much more to buy in Oolite than in the spectrum version of Oolite, having the same financial progression doesn't make sense.
Quote:
1.You become Offender when you attach clean ship at any place and the police comes to protect the victim (if available and not buzy at the system).Once you shot police , you become Fugitive. Maybe exclusion should be Feudal and Anarchy planets.
Install the Anarchies OXP, that should resolve most of these concerns. A feudal OXP is in the works, Communist and Dictatorship OXPs already exist.
Quote:
3.Now you become strongest in the world too fast.You almost should be not able to take convoy alone and travel alone to dangerous planets without being killed.So that join convoys to trade or wolfpacks to rob.The wolfpack ,like now,could include fighters and a Piton to collect cargo, revenue is divided. Woflpack tactics could be implemented : patrolling areas and calling the rest when a convoy is detected.
Plenty of OXPs out there which toughen up the opposition and will teach you the quality of humility. OSE, as already linked by Lestradae, opens up many many cans of whoop ass.

As for making dangerous planets more dangerous, you could always play the game in strict mode.
Quote:
4.AI of convoys. Now they allow to unknown ship to come to close position at 6 of trader.At least warning should be.
Am not sure what you expect the computer AI to do in response to this. Aggressive response wouldn't make sense.
Quote:
5. Anti-laser maneuvers, yours and enemy's. Should be adequate to enemy skills and ship type. Now random, a Piton sometimes hits you regardless how do you fly.
Some pirates are better at hitting you than others. Given you say the opposition isn't tough enough, this appears to be something of a contradiction.

I find that my being hit depends on a) how well I'm flying, b) how big the ship I'm flying is, c) how fast it is and d) what sort of pirate vessel is pursuing me. Flying a Wolf MKII, I can evade almost all incoming enemy fire (there is always a random chance to get hit), whereas it is much harder to evade in an Anaconda. The Cobby MkIII is one of the easier ships in the game to hit with laser fire, as it has quite a tall and wide profile. If you trade up to a vessel that has a smaller profile, you'll find you get hit a lot less often.


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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:21 pm 
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0. Too rich cargo, gold and gems every time . "Damn food again" at Sinclair.You become rich too fast.
I certainly didn't have this problem. I get far more in the way of food/textiles dropping from cargo than I do gold or silver. Ofc - as there is so much more to buy in Oolite than in the spectrum version of Oolite, having the same financial progression doesn't make sense.
Quote:
1.You become Offender when you attach clean ship at any place and the police comes to protect the victim (if available and not buzy at the system).Once you shot police , you become Fugitive. Maybe exclusion should be Feudal and Anarchy planets.
Install the Anarchies OXP, that should resolve most of these concerns. A feudal OXP is in the works, Communist and Dictatorship OXPs already exist.
Quote:
3.Now you become strongest in the world too fast.You almost should be not able to take convoy alone and travel alone to dangerous planets without being killed.So that join convoys to trade or wolfpacks to rob.The wolfpack ,like now,could include fighters and a Piton to collect cargo, revenue is divided. Woflpack tactics could be implemented : patrolling areas and calling the rest when a convoy is detected.
Plenty of OXPs out there which toughen up the opposition and will teach you the quality of humility. OSE, as already linked by Lestradae, opens up many many cans of whoop ass.

As for making dangerous planets more dangerous, you could always play the game in strict mode.
Quote:
4.AI of convoys. Now they allow to unknown ship to come to close position at 6 of trader.At least warning should be.
Am not sure what you expect the computer AI to do in response to this. Aggressive response wouldn't make sense.
Quote:
5. Anti-laser maneuvers, yours and enemy's. Should be adequate to enemy skills and ship type. Now random, a Piton sometimes hits you regardless how do you fly.
Some pirates are better at hitting you than others. Given you say the opposition isn't tough enough, this appears to be something of a contradiction.

I find that my being hit depends on a) how well I'm flying, b) how big the ship I'm flying is, c) how fast it is and d) what sort of pirate vessel is pursuing me. Flying a Wolf MKII, I can evade almost all incoming enemy fire (there is always a random chance to get hit), whereas it is much harder to evade in an Anaconda. The Cobby MkIII is one of the easier ships in the game to hit with laser fire, as it has quite a tall and wide profile. If you trade up to a vessel that has a smaller profile, you'll find you get hit a lot less often.
Yawing, rather than pitching and rolling seems to help limit the amount of fire you're taking (even in a Cobby3)

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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:47 pm 
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Quote:
Yawing, rather than pitching and rolling seems to help limit the amount of fire you're taking (even in a Cobby3)
Yes I know. However, all the pitching, yawing and rolling in the world won't evade all the incoming fire from half a dozen or more pirates.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:03 pm 
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I rarely use the Yaw control (only for minor adjustments when docking, maybe).

Two questions: was Yaw available in Elite, as I don’t remember it, and do NPCs have it?
I suspect both answers are no. Am I correct?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:07 pm 
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I suspect you are correct on the former, not so sure on the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
4.AI of convoys. Now they allow to unknown ship to come to close position at 6 of trader.At least warning should be.
Am not sure what you expect the computer AI to do in response to this. Aggressive response wouldn't make sense.
When approached with hostile intentions, convoys already react before a shot is fired. Every 10 seconds they do a scan for hostile ships. But although the computer can look into the minds of NPC pilots, Oolite still has no interface with the players brain. Maybe the player just want to say "Hello digger" 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Quote:
When approached with hostile intentions, convoys already react before a shot is fired. Every 10 seconds they do a scan for hostile ships. But although the computer can look into the minds of NPC pilots, Oolite still has no interface with the players brain. Maybe the player just want to say "Hello digger" 8)
Yes, I was thinking in terms of players rather than NPCs. I suppose a message from traders saying "hello" would be a nice touch (and already happens sometimes with the UPS OXP installed). I think what Digger is wanting is a chance for some of these convoys to get twitchy and react to craft coming into close proximity.

As I have no idea about scripting other than tinkering with plists, I've no idea if it is possible to have a flag on certain trader AI's that sends them hostile in response to player vessel proximity.


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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:31 pm 
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Quote:
As I have no idea about scripting other than tinkering with plists, I've no idea if it is possible to have a flag on certain trader AI's that sends them hostile in response to player vessel proximity.
They could send appropriately barbed quotes such as:

"How's my undercarriage doing?"

"Why don't you scrape off the barnacles while you're down there"

"Do you mind moving? I can't see my escort with you in the way"

"I see you still have some spinach left between your teeth"

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even the Grim Reaper keeps his distance.
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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:52 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
As I have no idea about scripting other than tinkering with plists, I've no idea if it is possible to have a flag on certain trader AI's that sends them hostile in response to player vessel proximity.
They could send appropriately barbed quotes such as:

"How's my undercarriage doing?"

"Why don't you scrape off the barnacles while you're down there"

"Do you mind moving? I can't see my escort with you in the way"

"I see you still have some spinach left between your teeth"
:lol:

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Quote:
Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
Oolite Life is now revealed here


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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:26 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
When approached with hostile intentions, convoys already react before a shot is fired. Every 10 seconds they do a scan for hostile ships. But although the computer can look into the minds of NPC pilots, Oolite still has no interface with the players brain. Maybe the player just want to say "Hello digger" 8)
Yes, I was thinking in terms of players rather than NPCs. I suppose a message from traders saying "hello" would be a nice touch (and already happens sometimes with the UPS OXP installed). I think what Digger is wanting is a chance for some of these convoys to get twitchy and react to craft coming into close proximity.

As I have no idea about scripting other than tinkering with plists, I've no idea if it is possible to have a flag on certain trader AI's that sends them hostile in response to player vessel proximity.
This seems reasonable to me. In the real world a convoy being approached by an unknown vessel would surely go through a sequence as proximity decreased.

1. Say 5 km, 'yellow alert' - readiness to lock on target, message "Please identify and state your intentions"
2. Say 2 km, "red alert, - escorts intercept intruder, prepared to attack, mesage "Disengage or you will be fired upon."
3. Say 1 km, "attack." - escorts will attack

Currently it's possible to waltz up right behind a Boa or Python in a formation, blow its guts out, steal the cargo and make off on injectors before the escorts react effectively. This really isn't realistic. Escorts should be immediately suspicious the moment you start heading in their direction.

In military circles, any escorts that return unharmed having lost their 'charge' are utterly disgraced.

Cheers,

Drew.

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 Post subject: Re: Enhanced realism mod
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:40 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When approached with hostile intentions, convoys already react before a shot is fired. Every 10 seconds they do a scan for hostile ships. But although the computer can look into the minds of NPC pilots, Oolite still has no interface with the players brain. Maybe the player just want to say "Hello digger" 8)
Yes, I was thinking in terms of players rather than NPCs. I suppose a message from traders saying "hello" would be a nice touch (and already happens sometimes with the UPS OXP installed). I think what Digger is wanting is a chance for some of these convoys to get twitchy and react to craft coming into close proximity.

As I have no idea about scripting other than tinkering with plists, I've no idea if it is possible to have a flag on certain trader AI's that sends them hostile in response to player vessel proximity.
This seems reasonable to me. In the real world a convoy being approached by an unknown vessel would surely go through a sequence as proximity decreased.

1. Say 5 km, 'yellow alert' - readiness to lock on target, message "Please identify and state your intentions"
2. Say 2 km, "red alert, - escorts intercept intruder, prepared to attack, mesage "Disengage or you will be fired upon."
3. Say 1 km, "attack." - escorts will attack

Currently it's possible to waltz up right behind a Boa or Python in a formation, blow its guts out, steal the cargo and make off on injectors before the escorts react effectively. This really isn't realistic. Escorts should be immediately suspicious the moment you start heading in their direction.

In military circles, any escorts that return unharmed having lost their 'charge' are utterly disgraced.

Cheers,

Drew.
Had some Navy (US and UK) here on a course last week - I built a little training scenario for them using VBS2 they wanted stuff like:

Unidentified vessel within X,000m of target anchored ship - use bullhorns and alarms to warn vessel (use of spotlights too), if vessel does not respond and turn away, shot across bow, if it still fails to respond, a shot INTO bow, if it still doesn't react then sink it...

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Oolite Life is now revealed here


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:54 pm 
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To quote from a semi-authoritive source....
Quote:
Already the unidentified ship was level with them. Rebecca hit the starboard viewer. It was
at extreme range, barely larger than a dot. It was flickering slightly, as if it was changing shape.
“He’s dropping speed and altering course,” Lance observed, double-checking the stats.
“I don’t like this,” Rebecca said quietly, keying the comlink onto tightband, “Red?”
“You called, little sis?” her brother answered.
“We’ve got a pacer, twenty kay off the starboard bow.”
There was a pause. Presumably Red was having a look for himself.
“I see him, though he’s out of range on my scanner. Funny looking ship. What’s the ID?”
“That’s just it. There isn’t one; he’s got no reg. He came howling up ahead of us and slowed
to match our course and speed.”
“Don’t see any need to bother him unless he bothers us; probably one of these hot shot boy
racers again. We’ll activate guns and be ready with a missile lock just in case. Suggest you do the
same.”
“Will do.” Rebecca flipped the switches for the beam laser’s prefire coil and the missile
arming mechs.
“He’s probably from in system and us just checking us over,” Lance agreed, “Or maybe just
sightseeing. This is a corporate system; what’s he going to do? There’s police every hundred kays
from the planet to the jump point.”
“Yeah.” Rebecca still felt worried, a tightness in the pit of her stomach; something didn’t
feel right. Traders always kept themselves to themselves; you didn’t follow other vessels around;
you didn’t do anything to cause alarm: accidents happened that way, people got nervous and started
firing. Traders had to assume the worst, it was the only way to guarantee staying alive.
It couldn’t be a boy racer either, not at 480 metric! That was a pretty heavy midsized ship.
They waited an anxious five minutes before the other vessel slowly started accelerating
away, changing to a course that would take it behind them. She’d been wracking her brains trying to
think of any ships that could manage point-three-seven-five at that tonnage but she’d come up
blank. She could see it a little better now: it looked almost like a catamaran, but nobody, as far as
she knew, had ever gotten a twin hull design of ship to work effectively. Maybe it really was some
new Galcop prototype; they were testing a lot of new ships at the moment, what with the Thargoid
situation. The ship was too far away for any decent visual observation.
The ident computer pinged up again.
Ident remains unconfirmed. Galcop Restricted. No data available.
Rebecca bit her lip, “Looks like a prototype of some kind.”
“And there he goes,” her brother’s voice said reassuringly over the comlink. The strange
ship was quickly accelerating away from them now. The exhaust flux was bright white with an
actinic blue edge, unlike the cyan glow of traditional engines.
and
Quote:
Suddenly all hell broke loose. The astrogation scanner lit up red and the sirens went off.
“Prak!” Lance shouted. ”Someone’s got a target lock on us!”
Rebecca looked at the console: it was the other ship, the one that had been pacing them, the
restricted Galcop vessel. It had turned and was accelerating towards them, closing the range
between them rapidly. Attacking from behind.
“Red?” called Rebecca, her voice high with alarm.
“I see him; we’re moving to intercept. Lock missiles, hit full throttle and sit tight. We’ll
handle this.”
“Copy.” Rebecca flipped switches and pushed the throttles forward. With a top speed of
point-two-four the Boa wouldn’t be able to outrun the unknown ship. They were relying on their
escorts. The generators began to whine as they met the increasing energy demands. They were only
carrying four missiles; one pylon was empty. They were also the cheap unhardened type.
“Here’s hoping he doesn’t have an ECM. Good shooting.”
Eclipse lurched slightly as her brother’s Krait, the Cobra Mk1 and the two Sidewinders
roared back past at full throttle. She wished she was at the helm of one of the fighters rather than
stuck on the old barge. They all knew she was the best pilot. She targeted all four missiles.
“And this is supposed to be a totally safe system,” Lance complained.
“No such thing,” growled Rebecca with feeling.
The incoming ship was rapidly growing larger. It was big, dwarfing their fighter escorts. It
was nothing like anything she’d seen before. A mean, tough looking ship. Twin hulls, which
appeared to be mostly engine nacelles, and a sleek modern profile quite unlike the blocky designs of
the last fifty years. It’s central section was very elongated, presenting a very slim frontal aspect. A
ship designed for fighting.
“What the prak is that?”
The four fighters broke off into a standard engagement pattern, shooting out away from each
other to attack from four different angles, combining their firepower into a simultaneous strike.
Rebecca watched as the newcomer turned and began tracking one of the Sidewinders.
Whatever it was it was quick; even faster than the fighters. She’d never seen anything so big
turn so quickly. It must have been souped up somehow, probably high gee bow thrusters or
something. Their escorts’ formation broke up in disarray, completely underestimating the new
ship’s performance.
“Frag! Would you look at that…”
8)

Cheers,

Drew.

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Author of the Oolite Saga, the officially licensed Elite: Reclamation and Elite Dangerous: Premonition
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