Re: Elite: Dangerous - and the return

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Geraldine
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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Geraldine »

phkb wrote:Oolite is not Elite either, but I think it captures all the feel of the original, and provides authors and players the ability to make the universe their own. Oolite gives us freedom: freedom of expression, freedom of play, freedom of vision, even beyond the free-ness of the download.
I would agree with that. Giles created a canvas that allowed Oolite's fans to paint upon it, add the colour, the depth it has to it's gameplay. This was something I'd hoped for with ED too, taking the best ideas it could find from it's long standing community and incorporating them into a new Elite. Isn't that what the DDF was supposed to be about? :? However due to the present design of the game and other choices made that would be more difficult now.

Community created content gives a game, any game, a greatly extended life because the fans can keep it fresh and exciting to play. With a game as big as Elite no one dev team could ever hope to fill it with content. A fully supported community could do that. You could see (for example) a mission say based on Drew's book or of the other official authors in the game or even new ships, new roles, new possibilities. But you would mostly need a closed sandbox universe for that otherwise it's "unfair" to force it upon those not interested.

This was highlighted to me recently when I created a thread on the FD forums that sank with barely a trace about fan created ships. Trying in vain to get FD switched on to the idea than the fans could add a vibrancy to the game if given the chance to do so. No interest, no replies and a lesson learned. So I guess it was useful in showing me that at least. :roll:

Anyways I would like to add my welcome to Chris too. Thank you very much for your wonderful work in the past. You helped create a legacy, a fan base of wide eyed kids from the 80s that has persisted to this very day. Some of those kids went on in latter years to keep the idea, that dream of Elite alive (because of that seed you helped to plant back then) since Elite 3 and the present. Even though perhaps their eyes are not so wide anymore! :lol:
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Elite IV Is Released. Now Keeping The Faith in Oolite, Pioneer & FFE3D :D

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by ClymAngus »

Geraldine wrote: Even though perhaps their eyes are not so wide anymore! :lol:
It they got much wider. They'd pop out of me head like a pair of yoyo's. :D

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Selezen »

Hi Chris, good to see you again!

Mr Braben's decisions and those of his company are, I suppose, their right to make. I don't agree with some of them and I can get behind others. Do I agree with the decisions regarding "lore" and so on? No, I don't. But then my opinion is only the opinion of a small corner of darkest Derby.
ClymAngus wrote: Is this publicly accessible of a writers perk? I have a small interest in history. :D
No it's not publicly accessible - it was created for the writers and for Frontier. It will never be published (at least as far as I know). If elements of it manage to stay in the RPG then I'll be happy, because it will mean that the hard work we all did will get some recognition. I could quite easily write the whole background lore of the Elite Universe myself, but I want to ensure that the RPG and the ED universe are linked as closely as possible.
ClymAngus wrote:On the copyright front, I would consider it inadvisable reminding anyone at Fronteer that we still exist (and are doing reasonably well) despite their brand spanking new version. You are a playing unit, one which has a certain monetary value. As soon and the value of the playing units is higher than the perceived cost of the bad press generated by shutting oolite down. Bye bye.
I think Frontier generally look at projects like Oolite as being "don't ask, don't tell". Even the high profile ones are tolerated as long as they don't start demanding money in some way. Remember that Oolite was pimped big time at EliteMeet and (iirc) LaveCon in front of Frontier staff and that Mr Braben has been engaged in conversation about it. Other members of the Frontier community have discussed Oolite without any ill feeling and the impression I've got is that they are grateful to projects like Oolite for keeping the flame alive and ensuring that Elite Dangerous had a considerable audience when the Kickstarter was launched.

I think Oolite is pretty safe. Even though Oolite is based on Elite, it's a very different beast than Elite Dangerous. The world is big enough for Oolite and Frontier to share some space. Pun intended. They're games that go off in different directions.

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by ClymAngus »

Well, if you would cast an eye over the chronicles of shulth (I can send you future chapters) not for mere spelling or grammar but world consistency. Then It would be appreciated. Lord knows your already a fundamental part of the books pre-written forward.

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Diziet Sma »

Speaking of Chronicles of Shulth, and spelling and grammar, I'd be more than happy to offer my services..
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Selezen »

ClymAngus wrote:Well, if you would cast an eye over the chronicles of shulth (I can send you future chapters) not for mere spelling or grammar but world consistency. Then It would be appreciated. Lord knows your already a fundamental part of the books pre-written forward.
I would be honoured. As long as it doesn't impact on the RPG-writing process. ;-)

Send me the lot as a word doc or something and I'll use comments and change tracking to highlight stuff.

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by ClymAngus »

What do you mean honored? You practically invented the historical universe single handed! We hitch a ride on YOUR coat tails sir!

I'm only sorry that Frontier isn't taking the enthusiastic works of several very clever people seriously. They could have tapped a MASSIVE source of knowledge that would have saved them both time and money. Nope, lets go with people we are paying instead...... People who are paid and do not have a passion for the subject matter are but a poor second to the impassioned volunteer. Because, at the most basic level a volunteer gives up their time, of their own free will to make things better.

But that wasn't enough dear me no. The volunteers PAID to be a part of this grand adventure. Frontier turned good will and hope into a revenue stream. I knew they were going to do this (I am cynical) So I funded Drew but not the game. I believe in Drew and I still do. I believe in Ian Bell, which is why I organised us sending him some Christmas presents. David Braben I don't believe in. I would like to, but every time I try too he acts in a way that appeals wonderfully to my cynical side.

It's like my fat balding, 50 something cynical nature is sitting in the cynicism stripper bar, fumbling with a sweat moistened 20 dollar bill as the Elite Dangerous stripper thrusts and wobbles provocatively in front of it. With every act he feeds my cynicism.

So screw them. Yes I will. With a deep bow take you up on that offer sir. For now I'm ok, for the minute a lot of the action is going on "out of time or in a dead version of reality". You can't screw cannon if the cannon your creating auto-destructs. But as soon as I hit "reality" I would appreciate your encyclopedic knowledge.

I want them to remember. In their most private moments that we "fans" fixed this. Because they were too busy counting greenbacks to care if the story made sense or not.

</rant>

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Selezen »

Wow. Just. Wow.

Have a listen to my latest video for some of my thoughts on this situation. I kind of echo a lot of what you say here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iwlh9Yx0kY (check at about 2h20m into the stream).

Starts off with a nice chat about Oolite then ends with me on a HUGE soap box.

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by ClymAngus »

I will be reviewing this most closely. Thank you.

Good fix on the sound by the way. Thought I was going deaf there for a second. You were quite far down in the mix.
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The investment curtails the freedom unfortunately. Such is the price of giving the devil his shilling.
As an old drug pusher once said to me; always sell, never carry.
Last edited by ClymAngus on Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and sales weasels!

Post by Cody »

ClymAngus wrote:David Braben I don't believe in. I would like to, but every time I try too he acts in a way that appeals wonderfully to my cynical side.
When the KS appeared, I suspended my cynical nature and my deeply-rooted distrust of sales weasels - in retrospect, that was a mistake!

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and sales weasels!

Post by cim »

Though it's perhaps worth not being too rose-tinted about the original Elite setting either. The manual contradicts the Dark Wheel contradicts the game itself multiple times. I have a set of notes in a file called "not in the manual" on my computer which hypothesise about the sort of setting fans might have invented for Elite if it hadn't come with the Dark Wheel and the manual had been the traditional folded-A4 reference card, and they just had to work it out from the in-game information.

Perhaps it's better to think of "setting" as something which the Elite series occasionally gets right in itself, often accidentally, and more often something which fans put together in their own way from scattered hints a decade or two after the fact.

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and sales weasels!

Post by Diziet Sma »

cim wrote:I have a set of notes in a file called "not in the manual" on my computer which hypothesise about the sort of setting fans might have invented for Elite if it hadn't come with the Dark Wheel and the manual had been the traditional folded-A4 reference card, and they just had to work it out from the in-game information.
That would be interesting to read.. please consider posting it, or making a link available to it.. could make for an interesting discussion.
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and sales weasels!

Post by ClymAngus »

A thing can be many things depending on who you talk to and how much knowledge they have in the first place.
A character in a book might be being obscure or lying or generally ignorant but not wanting to look so.

Canon does tend to assume that most characters are being truthful when they speak.

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and sales weasels!

Post by Selezen »

cim wrote:I have a set of notes in a file called "not in the manual" on my computer which hypothesise about the sort of setting fans might have invented for Elite if it hadn't come with the Dark Wheel and the manual had been the traditional folded-A4 reference card, and they just had to work it out from the in-game information.
That's how it starts. Then you start writing fan fiction. Then before you know it you've written a timeline trying to explain it all and people start using it for THEIR fan fiction then suddenly you're being asked to collaborate on a writer's bible.

Be careful. You never know where this note-taking habit might lead.

I can stop any time I like. Honest.

:? :P

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Re: Elite: Dangerous - and sales weasels!

Post by drew »

Selezen wrote:I can stop any time I like. Honest.
That made me chuckle! :) Thanks for the compliment on the stream by the way, Selezen. Much appreciated. ;) (I'm not single btw...!)

Cheers,

Drew.
Author of the Oolite Saga, the officially licensed Elite: Reclamation and Elite Dangerous: Premonition
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