Limit Theory

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Limit Theory

Post by Commander McLane » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:48 pm

I know that currently we're all excited about Elite: Dangerous.*

But I've got some questions for you:

You like a single-player space game? You like a big open sandbox, with no pre-defined narrative at all? You like a procedurally generated universe? And you like it infinitely big?

You should definitely take a look at this.


_______________
*Or perhaps not so excited anymore, given that David Braben/Frontier Development seem intent on making it a textbook example of how-not-to-handle-a-crowdfunding-campaign.

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Kasero » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:13 pm

I was surfing Spacesimcentral half an hour ago and read the news about it.
The time to check LT's Kickstarter and the project, and here I come to see that someone was faster than me :mrgreen:

It seems great, especially from a one-man dev team, kind of a genious guy!

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Disembodied » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:29 pm

Oh, very sweet! Space games are hip again ... or at least, crowdsourcing funding to make space games is hip. For the first time, probably.

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Cody » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:33 pm

Disembodied wrote:Oh, very sweet! Space games are hip again
<sniggers>

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by ClymAngus » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:58 am

Disembodied wrote:Oh, very sweet! Space games are hip again ... or at least, crowdsourcing funding to make space games is hip. For the first time, probably.
the dividing principle depresses me. Especially given the influx of interest. One idea has a better chance of being made, but with competition comes, an interest devolution to the point ALL may fail due to the lack of unity....

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Commander McLane » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:20 am

ClymAngus wrote:
Disembodied wrote:Oh, very sweet! Space games are hip again ... or at least, crowdsourcing funding to make space games is hip. For the first time, probably.
the dividing principle depresses me. Especially given the influx of interest. One idea has a better chance of being made, but with competition comes, an interest devolution to the point ALL may fail due to the lack of unity....
Maybe. But on the other hand: competition is good.

Also, on the one side there is an established software company and on the other side there is a young guy who has set out to re-invent the genre. Which not-coincidentally reminds some people of two young guys from Cambridge who went to invent the genre back in 1983. :wink:

He created his own engine from scratch. And he did it in three months. And he has already far more to show than the company which has only been working on its project for 14 years. Even if it was basically vapourware between 1998 and 2012, over all these years they must have put at least as many man-hours into it than a single person can possibly have in three months.

Also, the amount of funding requested is vastly different. I'm fairly sure that Limit Theory will make its goal, provided that nothing unforeseen happens (like the whole thing turning out to be a hoax). I'm rather less confident in the case of Elite: Dangerous. (I'm even less confident that it won't turn out to be a hoax.) And if Elite: Dangerous won't make its goal, that will not be the fault of any competitor who is committed to their project. It will be solely because of the lack of commitment on the part of David Braben/Frontier Development. At this point I'm not sure whether it's merely a lack of commitment to crowd funding (which is a terrible strategy if you rely on crowd funding; it's equivalent to biting the hand that feeds you) or a lack of commitment to the project itself. It's anyone's guess which one it is.

Elite: Dangerous—even if it gets made—definitely won't get me away from Oolite. Limit Theory likely won't either, mainly because Oolite's attractive strong side is modding, which won't be possible in a completely procedurally generated game. But at this point I find it honestly more interesting—and its creator story far more captivating—than E:D.

Bottom line: if you're right that one idea has a better chance of ultimately being made, then for me at this point it becomes less and less clear that E:D would be the idea that deserves this chance.

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Disembodied » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:47 am

ClymAngus wrote:the dividing principle depresses me. Especially given the influx of interest. One idea has a better chance of being made, but with competition comes, an interest devolution to the point ALL may fail due to the lack of unity....
But there's also the idea that all ships are lifted by a rising tide. It's not like there's only room for one FPS game, or one driving game, or even one drivin-in-da-hood game: space, I think, is big enough! And as Commander McClane points out, there's a huge gulf in the amounts of money being requested here ($50,000 compared to £1.25 million). If Limit Theory is a threat to E:D, then so is Oolite ...

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by maaarcooose » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:13 am

To be honest, I find a real dislike for this kind of kickstarter.

Pay £15 and get the game.
Pay £2000 and get lots of extra insider information and stuff to make gameplay better so you can be the uber player!!!!

It's just making it, he with the most money wins.
It's just in game purchases before the game has been released or even finished.


I have no problem with buying a boxed game if it is worth it. I like having the extra stuff.
If there nothing extra, then digital download is fine.

Is all the extra stuff going to be purchasable when the game comes out, or is it exclusive to Kickstarter?

I like the look of the game though, looks nice, but the pitch just feels wrong.

I'm annoyed now.

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Diziet Sma » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:36 am

maaarcooose wrote:To be honest, I find a real dislike for this kind of kickstarter.

Pay £15 and get the game.
Pay £2000 and get lots of extra insider information and stuff to make gameplay better so you can be the uber player!!!!

It's just making it, he with the most money wins.
Still, at least it doesn't give you any advantage over others in one sense.. it's going to be single-player only, like Oolite.

Overall, I quite like the sound of what he's doing.. and interesting to see that even the ships are procedurally generated..
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by maaarcooose » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:43 am

Diziet Sma wrote:
maaarcooose wrote:To be honest, I find a real dislike for this kind of kickstarter.

Pay £15 and get the game.
Pay £2000 and get lots of extra insider information and stuff to make gameplay better so you can be the uber player!!!!

It's just making it, he with the most money wins.
Still, at least it doesn't give you any advantage over others in one sense.. it's going to be single-player only, like Oolite.

Overall, I quite like the sound of what he's doing.. and interesting to see that even the ships are procedurally generated..
True.

If it was multi player then I'd be really annoyed.

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Commander McLane » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:08 pm

maaarcooose wrote:To be honest, I find a real dislike for this kind of kickstarter.

Pay £15 and get the game.
Pay £2000 and get lots of extra insider information and stuff to make gameplay better so you can be the uber player!!!!

It's just making it, he with the most money wins.
It's just in game purchases before the game has been released or even finished.
To be honest, though, what kind of rewards can a game developer give out? A copy of the finished game seems like a logical first choice. (Just like you get a copy of Drew's finished ebook for backing him.)

And what comes after that? There's basically two directions: either it's tshirts and coffee mugs, or it's in-game goodies. Personally, I don't have anything against tshirts and coffee mugs in general (because I admit to regularly wearing clothes and drinking hot beverages :wink: ), but I don't particularly care for a game logo printed on them. On the other hand, if I actually look forward to playing the finished game, in-game goodies are an incentive.

Thus, basically all kickstarter campaigns for games end up handing out in-game goodies (while also covering the tshirt-and-coffee-mug-party). In that regard there is no difference between Limit Theory, Elite: Dangerous (see their FAQ for becoming a founding member of the Elite), or Star Citizen (they went for in-game goodies heavily).

What I find especially neat about the Limit Theory in-game goodies is that they're completely useless for the overwhelming majority of games. You can create universes with any of 2^16 seed values. And you get maps and information only for a small part of a handful of them, or the big information pack for a single one. You can use this as sort of a tutorial for your first universe, and then create a new universe for which you have no goodies at all. It's up to you. :)

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by maaarcooose » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:22 pm

Okay....

Maybe I'm overreacting here.


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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Thargoid » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:41 pm

They seem to be springing up all over the place. There's now also one by Peter Molyneux for Project Godus, the remake/sequel/update of Populous.

One wonders quite how many game projects this site can support without drying up the well? And the offerings/levels here also seem a little odd in places.

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Kasero » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Surprizing to see that for so many years, even decade(s), we have had almost nothing new under the stars and that suddenly a bunch of people (known, renown and unknown alike) are kick-starting their project... :?
And I know there is more to come, at least Infinity for example... :roll:

Hard times to come for some projects, imho... Like Thargoid rightly said above, how long can the well supply everybody before it becomes dry?

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Re: Limit Theory

Post by Selezen » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:33 am

Game development is a common story - loads of people have great ideas then find they don't have the time to do anything with it as real life (tm) kicks in.

Limit Theory Guy is a student, and again most of the great ideas and enthusiasm come from students. Then, when they finish their courses and start working in the real world they suddenly lose the motivation.

Limit Theory isn't a freeware/open source game, though, so maybe that will give the lad some further incentive (since he likely won't have to get a job until the development is finished). Personally I think it looks awesome, and seems to be taking a great deal of inspiration from Elite, so I'd happily back it if I hadn't already pushed the budget by supporting ED and Drew.

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