Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Discussion and announcements regarding the Mac port… er, original version of Oolite.

Moderators: winston, another_commander

User avatar
ffutures
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:34 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by ffutures » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:35 pm

I currently own two elderly PPC Macs; an iBook G4 1.2ghz, 1.25gb RAM, and an iMac G4, 700mhz, currently 500mb but will soon be 1gb RAM.

I have Oolite 1.76 on the iBook and it works but isn't any great ball of fire. I haven't tried it on the iMac G4, I'm still refurbishing that and it has some minor problems I'd like to fix before getting fancy, and given its slowness I doubt it will be much good with any recent version of Oolite.

What I'm wondering is if there's an early release that runs FAST on these older machines. Doesn't need to do much more than the original Elite, neither machine will ever be my preferred gaming platform, but it would be nice to have something to entertain friends who were Elite-heads in the BBC days.

User avatar
JensAyton
Grand Admiral Emeritus
Grand Admiral Emeritus
Posts: 6657
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:43 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by JensAyton » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:22 pm

Dunno.

A closely related question is, which old versions can you actually get hold of? I posted the two I have lying around for you to try: Obviously no-one can offer anything even resembling support for these; I don’t have anything old enough to even run them.

User avatar
ffutures
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:34 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by ffutures » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:35 pm

Fair enough - I'll try them both and let you know how I get on.

User avatar
Diziet Sma
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 6310
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:20 pm
Location: Aboard the Pitviper S.E. "Blackwidow"

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by Diziet Sma » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:12 am

If I recall correctly, Commander McLane keeps an extensive archive of older Mac versions..
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

User avatar
Eric Walch
Slightly Grand Rear Admiral
Slightly Grand Rear Admiral
Posts: 5536
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:48 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by Eric Walch » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:33 pm

Diziet Sma wrote:If I recall correctly, Commander McLane keeps an extensive archive of older Mac versions..
The oldest I have lying around is Oolite 1.01.dmg (3.7 MB). I remember that it worked with OS Tiger. It is a really basic version of Oolite :)

I remember that Oolite 1.65 contains a lot of speed improvements, so it might even be faster than the version 1.40
My archive also contains a version 1.55. But only versions 1.65 and higher still run on the current OS Marvericks.

User avatar
Eric Walch
Slightly Grand Rear Admiral
Slightly Grand Rear Admiral
Posts: 5536
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:48 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by Eric Walch » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:40 pm

One warning with those old versions in combination with oxp's. A lot of oxp's don't specify a minimum oolite version, resulting in Oolite trying to load the newer oxp's. The old Oolite versions however don't like complex ships and crash on loading them. There is no check for ships with to many triangles. :(

User avatar
ffutures
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:34 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by ffutures » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:03 am

They both sort of work on the 700mhz iMac, but both have some jerkiness. 1.40 feels very slightly faster, but is very limited in other respects. I think I may have to accept I can't really use the iMac for this. Hopefully I'll have better luck with the iBook.

User avatar
JensAyton
Grand Admiral Emeritus
Grand Admiral Emeritus
Posts: 6657
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:43 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by JensAyton » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:23 am

Eric Walch wrote:I remember that Oolite 1.65 contains a lot of speed improvements, so it might even be faster than the version 1.40
By the same reasoning, 1.76 should be faster than 1.65, but somehow it never works out that way. :-)

I first played Oolite on a 233 MHz G3, but it wasn’t exactly butter-smooth.

User avatar
ffutures
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:34 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by ffutures » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:28 pm

Well, I found a solution - bought a friend's Macbook, 2ghz late 2006 model, currently 2gb but I'll probably upgrade the RAM. Seems to work a LOT better - however, I'm not seeing hyperspace jump effects, just an abrupt transition from one system to the next. Anyone know what that's about?

User avatar
Diziet Sma
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 6310
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:20 pm
Location: Aboard the Pitviper S.E. "Blackwidow"

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by Diziet Sma » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:39 am

The 2006 models (I have an early 2006 one - almost never use it) used the dreaded Intel GMA 950 graphics chip, which can only access a whopping 64 MB of video RAM (or 224MB if you run Windoze via bootcamp).

So basically, you're stuck with a crap graphics chip, one which has probably had more complaints/problems reported with Oolite, than all other graphics chips combined. You may need to turn down the graphics settings in Oolite (and/or, if you're using it, disable some of the BGS effects settings, via OXPConfig).

On the bright side.. you can run Lion on yours.. I'm stuck with Snow Leopard.
ffutures wrote:currently 2gb but I'll probably upgrade the RAM
Note that though you can fit 4GB, due to other hardware limitations, only 3GB is actually usable.. so don't waste the money on the extra 1GB. Assuming you have a pair of 1GB sticks in it now, just buy a single 2GB stick, not a pair. I made that mistake with the ASUS laptop I'm using now. (and be glad you don't have the early 2006 model - 2GB is the maximum)
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

User avatar
ffutures
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:34 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by ffutures » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:20 pm

Diziet Sma wrote:The 2006 models (I have an early 2006 one - almost never use it) used the dreaded Intel GMA 950 graphics chip, which can only access a whopping 64 MB of video RAM (or 224MB if you run Windoze via bootcamp).

So basically, you're stuck with a crap graphics chip, one which has probably had more complaints/problems reported with Oolite, than all other graphics chips combined. You may need to turn down the graphics settings in Oolite (and/or, if you're using it, disable some of the BGS effects settings, via OXPConfig).

On the bright side.. you can run Lion on yours.. I'm stuck with Snow Leopard.
ffutures wrote:currently 2gb but I'll probably upgrade the RAM
Note that though you can fit 4GB, due to other hardware limitations, only 3GB is actually usable.. so don't waste the money on the extra 1GB. Assuming you have a pair of 1GB sticks in it now, just buy a single 2GB stick, not a pair. I made that mistake with the ASUS laptop I'm using now. (and be glad you don't have the early 2006 model - 2GB is the maximum)
Thanks for the info re the graphics chip - can't say I'm astonished, it works well enough for most of my needs so I'll have to live with the downside - I only paid £150 for the computer.

Re memory, while they can't use the fourth gigabyte directly, putting in 4gb allegedly speeds them up a bit because they use 128-bit memory addressing if both DIMMs are the same. I'm still costing that one out, looking for the best deal I can find on the RAM. I got the iMac up to 1gb (from 256mb) for about £12 by being patient and waiting for a good deal to come along, I'm hoping I can do something similar with the MacBook.

User avatar
Svengali
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2365
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:52 pm

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by Svengali » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:22 pm

ffutures wrote:however, I'm not seeing hyperspace jump effects, just an abrupt transition from one system to the next.
Hmm. Smells like a no-shader support thing. BGS usually configures itself, but when looking at Oolites v1.80 announcement I'd say it can't work anymore.
Announcing Oolite v1.80 wrote:* Graphics settings have changed to merge "shader settings" and "reduced detail" into a single option. There is an 'extra detail' option suitable for dedicated graphics cards.
Searching the board for gameSettings shows v1.80 properties -> http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f= ... 25&start=6. The Wiki needs an update.

This means that OXP/OXZ-checks for reducedDetailGraphics or shaderEffectsLevel don't work anymore (removed in v1.80). If I recall it right the shader preprocessor directives OO_REDUCED_COMPLEXITY and OO_LIGHT_0_FIX have been removed as well, so some shaders may do stuff your gfx-card is not prepared for or the shaders will use e.g. the wrong light source, etc.

User avatar
ffutures
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:34 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by ffutures » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:29 pm

Svengali wrote:
ffutures wrote:however, I'm not seeing hyperspace jump effects, just an abrupt transition from one system to the next.
Hmm. Smells like a no-shader support thing. BGS usually configures itself, but when looking at Oolites v1.80 announcement I'd say it can't work anymore.
Announcing Oolite v1.80 wrote:* Graphics settings have changed to merge "shader settings" and "reduced detail" into a single option. There is an 'extra detail' option suitable for dedicated graphics cards.
Searching the board for gameSettings shows v1.80 properties -> http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f= ... 25&start=6. The Wiki needs an update.

This means that OXP/OXZ-checks for reducedDetailGraphics or shaderEffectsLevel don't work anymore (removed in v1.80). If I recall it right the shader preprocessor directives OO_REDUCED_COMPLEXITY and OO_LIGHT_0_FIX have been removed as well, so some shaders may do stuff your gfx-card is not prepared for or the shaders will use e.g. the wrong light source, etc.
Well, this will never be my main games machine, I'll pull some of the OXPs and have a more minimal installation on it. Thanks for the heads-up.

User avatar
ClymAngus
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2508
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:31 am
Location: London England
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by ClymAngus » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:06 pm

We all need to buy ourselves some nice new computers don't we? (Me included, I'm still keeping 2 ppc macs running) thing is I've lost the love for apple. They used to be such a better company than they are now. I'm finding a lot of things going that way. Google are slowly becoming evil too.

Problem is I really dislike windows and I'm unsure I have the brain to scratch build a linux box.

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 13637
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Best version for OLD PPC Macs?

Post by Cody » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:41 pm

ClymAngus wrote:Google are slowly becoming evil too.
Slowly? They'll be one of the first against the wall when the revolution comes!

Post Reply