Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cholmondely »

hiran wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:30 pm The current version of the OoliteCommunicator allows a new way of cheating. Quite interesting...
Ahah! And which of the zillion-and-one different ways of cheating would that be, O courageous creator of communicatory channels?
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cholmondely »

Are we having another session tonight?
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:28 pm Are we having another session tonight?
Just working on some improvement. Let me have 20 more minutes...
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:28 pm ...
Hello Sir!

Have you had a chance to look at the secret plan? If so, which of the steps might cause problems?

I stumbled over another Elite clone that seems to have quite similar plans for going multiplayer:
There will be no multiplayer. This does not rule out the possibility of minor network features, but multiplayer as it is commonly known is not compatible with the core mechanics of Pioneer. See for instance Network features, and ServerAgent for more, or our dev-forum here. Pioneer will never have multiple players in different ships, as this is incompatible with time acceleration feature. For comparison: the Elite Dangerous dev-team chose to prioritize multiplayer over Newtonian mechanics, and make it more like the original Elite, we choose to stay true to the core concepts of Frontier Elite II, which is Newtonian mechanics, with time acceleration.
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cody »

Pioneer is much more of a Frontier clone. At one time, it had many of the FE2/FFE ships.
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by tsoj »

Pioneer relies heavily on extreme time acceleration, so making it multiplayer is not only difficult from a technical perspective (I assume?), but also not clear how to do from a gameplay perspective.

However, Pioneer has the advantage of being coded in C++ and not ObjectiveC, so it is easier to contribute directly to the core game. What Pioneer is really missing though, is that it feels really empty, because there aren't as many expansions that add atmosphere to the game as for Oolite. Pioneer feels to me more like a programming project than a game. So I never got into it really. (Also, shooting enemies is even harder than in Oolite ... :P).
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by hiran »

tsoj wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:02 pm Pioneer relies heavily on extreme time acceleration, so making it multiplayer is not only difficult from a technical perspective (I assume?), but also not clear how to do from a gameplay perspective.

However, Pioneer has the advantage of being coded in C++ and not ObjectiveC, so it is easier to contribute directly to the core game. What Pioneer is really missing though, is that it feels really empty, because there aren't as many expansions that add atmosphere to the game as for Oolite. Pioneer feels to me more like a programming project than a game. So I never got into it really. (Also, shooting enemies is even harder than in Oolite ... :P).
I tried flying from the starting point (Sirius???) to Mars. Without the time acceleration I would have starved in from of my computer, and even then I was not able to finish one flight before I had to call it a night.

So I agree: It is not a direct replacement.
But just look at the thoughts they spent about multiplayer. That players could interact when trading with the same station, or leaving messages to each other. Exactly the stuff I am aiming at with the Oolite Communicator.
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cholmondely »

So, your massive new Linux system-cum-Oolite-cum-Oolite Communicator finally finished downloading!

1) Oolite Communicator said that my XMPP account was alright! (But does that mean anything?)
2) I downloaded a zillion and one oxz's and started playing. Slow and clunky. Combat would be a nightmare. Docking is a nightmare (I bought ILS). Maybe all those oxz's need more RAM or something?
3) Very impressive! I can't believe that you put it all together by yourself! Well done!
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:23 pm So, your massive new Linux system-cum-Oolite-cum-Oolite Communicator finally finished downloading!

1) Oolite Communicator said that my XMPP account was alright! (But does that mean anything?)
2) I downloaded a zillion and one oxz's and started playing. Slow and clunky. Combat would be a nightmare. Docking is a nightmare (I bought ILS). Maybe all those oxz's need more RAM or something?
3) Very impressive! I can't believe that you put it all together by yourself! Well done!
Congratulations! You got it running despite the fact it is your first time on Linux, virtual machines and P2P sharing networks! You are taking a very steep learning curve just like that! :D

1) If the account verification is OK it means there is communication between Oolite Communicator and your XMPP provider. if that one is not the provider hosting the Oolite chatroom, federation is required in the backgound. The check does not include connecting to the Oolite chatroom so this could still fail. There is a chance that federation had a problem and that's why the messages went one-way only. Hmm, maybe I should add one more check.

2) I am not surprised about the low performance. This virtual machine badly lacks graphics hardware performance. It is all simulated in software, and I never tried to tune it. The intention on this one is to show collaboration. So if the many OXPs kill the performance too badly you better not install them.
However you may try to configure it for more RAM, more CPUs or a different graphics card if you like. Virtual hardware on your local computer costs very little these days... ;-)
Check out
- https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch03. ... l-hardware
- https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ho ... ive-steps/

3) Actually I did not do everything myself. Most of the work was done by Ubuntu, Oolite developers, HashiCorp, Oracle, TransmissionBT developers, XMPP server developers and I was just the one to plug them together. Ah, I pulled the wallpaper from this forum, so Oolite users were also involved. Not to talk about your patience. Time to write a disclaimer...


That means we have all the prerequisites of running a session together.
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:23 pm So, your massive new Linux system-cum-Oolite-cum-Oolite Communicator finally finished downloading!
Now that we have that appliance I can run multiple clients on my side directly. And they show some effect that we experienced together as well.
The good part is now I can investigate as much as I want in less time. A new aera has started.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. [Thomas Edison]
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cholmondely »

hiran wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:36 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:23 pm ...
2) I downloaded a zillion and one oxz's and started playing. Slow and clunky. Combat would be a nightmare. Docking is a nightmare (I bought ILS). Maybe all those oxz's need more RAM or something?
...
Congratulations! You got it running despite the fact it is your first time on Linux, virtual machines and P2P sharing networks! You are taking a very steep learning curve just like that! :D

That means we have all the prerequisites of running a session together.
I'm going to try playing the strict game on your Linux version. If the slowness is due to the oxz's that should solve it.

Thank you for the congratulations, but if you had not been standing over me and talking me through it with such patience, I would have gotten absolutely nowhere.

Looking forwards to Tuesday!
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cody »

Cholmondely wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:11 pmLooking forwards to Tuesday!
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by hiran »

hiran wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:38 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:23 pm So, your massive new Linux system-cum-Oolite-cum-Oolite Communicator finally finished downloading!
Now that we have that appliance I can run multiple clients on my side directly. And they show some effect that we experienced together as well.
The good part is now I can investigate as much as I want in less time. A new aera has started.
Able to see the problem from both sides locally now I drilled down on the area causing the strange effect. And found something to be improved. After all, something is changed now. :-)

With that I need to create a new release. The small part would be just the communicator, but I believe it is also worth to add some auto-updater to the applicance so you do not have to manually install new versions.
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:11 pm Looking forwards to Tuesday!
Yes, let's see how far we get there. :-)
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cholmondely »

hiran wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:18 pm
hiran wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:38 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:23 pm So, your massive new Linux system-cum-Oolite-cum-Oolite Communicator finally finished downloading!
Now that we have that appliance I can run multiple clients on my side directly. And they show some effect that we experienced together as well.
The good part is now I can investigate as much as I want in less time. A new aera has started.
Able to see the problem from both sides locally now I drilled down on the area causing the strange effect. And found something to be improved. After all, something is changed now. :-)

With that I need to create a new release. The small part would be just the communicator, but I believe it is also worth to add some auto-updater to the applicance so you do not have to manually install new versions.
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:11 pm Looking forwards to Tuesday!
Yes, let's see how far we get there. :-)
Tried your Linux version with just the "strict game". Much better (faster, more responsive, etc).
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Re: Brainstorming for a MultiUser OXP

Post by Cholmondely »

I'm on (XMPP & Jitsi)!
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