Brexit vote, the zombie apocalypse and other fallout.

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Should the UK leave the EU?

Yes
11
31%
No
21
58%
Don't know
1
3%
Don't care
0
No votes
Nothing to do with me, mate!
3
8%
 
Total votes: 36

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kanthoney
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Re: EU referendum

Post by kanthoney »

What does everyone think of the option of leaving the EU and joining the EFTA instead, as advocated in this article? Apparently, we'd get to keep the really good bits about being in the EU (free trade, free movement) without having to be assimilated into a huge, monolithic hive-mind type entity.

There are drawbacks - on the trade front, there would be an increased administration cost in exporting to the EU due to something called "Rules of Origin", although those rules are due to be simplified next year, and if you're an anti-immigration loon this option won't help. There are also benefits such as being able to set our own import tariffs (apparently the Treasury report neglects to explore any of these, which is a bit naughty).
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Cody »

kanthoney wrote:What does everyone think of the option of leaving the EU and joining the EFTA instead?
You mean rejoining EFTA - which would be fine by me. I'm still a lone voice in the wilderness (only in this poll though).
Who was it that set up a system, a supposedly democratic system
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Wildeblood »

So when is the referendum happening, anyway?
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Cody »

Meanwhile, here in the urban wasteland that is Pajero Central, the local polling station was deserted.
Not only voting for local councillors but also for a police commissioner? Am I living in Gotham City?
Who was it that set up a system, a supposedly democratic system
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
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Re: EU referendum

Post by ClymAngus »

Yes I hear that it all got a little screwy. Yet another vote where I find myself sickened by the vast majority of the candidates.
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Cody »

Mr Juncker complained that "we have full-time Europeans when it comes to take. And we have part-time Europeans when it comes to give. In former times, all those implied in the project were full-time Europeans. Now we have too many part-time Europeans. That's the problem."

"The idea of one EU state, one vision... was an illusion," said Mr Tusk, a former Polish Prime Minister.
No comment!
Who was it that set up a system, a supposedly democratic system
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
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Re: EU referendum

Post by ClymAngus »

I'm not looking for a shag feast resulting in the all new universal neo-european. I just want an Arthurian round table. That's all.
Isolationism helps no one.
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kanthoney
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Re: EU referendum

Post by kanthoney »

ClymAngus wrote:Isolationism helps no one.
Yes, but while there certainly are a lot of Brexiters who want to build a big wall around Britain so they can flick two fingers up at the Continent, there are some who want out for precisely the opposite reason - they think that it's the EU that's becoming a walled-in enclave in an increasingly open and globalised world, and also that it's getting hopelessly bogged down with its project to get 28 disparate nations all thinking and acting in perfect harmony.

That's the point of the EFTA option that I posted about above. We'd still have open trade and movement with the EU, but we could also have more open dealings with the rest of the world than the EU allows. And there's no reason at all why we couldn't continue to cooperate with the EU (or anyone else) on things that matter. Case in point - Georgia, which isn't in the EU, has just signed up to join the EU's Horizon 2020 science research program.

A possible fly in the ointment is that if Leave wins, the numpties in charge might decide that we must be all raging xenophobes and screw everything up. But then again, in the event of a Leave vote the Government needs to find the option that's best suited to everyone, not just those who voted leave, and most people do want to continue to cooperate with Europe.
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Disembodied »

Increasingly, the world is throwing up problems that require a collective response - problems which are far greater than mere issues of trade. While I understand the genuine frustration with much of what the EU does (and does not), that the EU is inept and sclerotic is I think cause to reform it, not to leave it. As an institution it's barely a generation old: we - the species - need to start to think on larger scales than we have been used to doing.
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Re: EU referendum

Post by ClymAngus »

These are ALL fair comments. Totally acceptable when you have a whole load of people who are unsure what the long term outcome of a particular disision might be. I fear there are no clean motives in this. In or out. I am concerned about a conservative government being given free reign to make the deals that will bind us for the next 25 to 50 years. I just don't think they like humanity enough to make balanced disisions when it comes to trade.
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Cody »

Major speeches today - should make for interesting reading, judging by the snippets I've seen of Cameron's.
Who was it that set up a system, a supposedly democratic system
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Wildeblood »

Celebrity racist Stefan Molyneux opines regarding Brexit, EU, Britain &c...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgJVV9hD5yY
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Cody »

Four weeks to go - exciting, ain't it? <sighs>
Who was it that set up a system, a supposedly democratic system
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Wildeblood »

In 1933 the people of Western Australia, in a referendum held in accordance with the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia Act, 1900 (Imp), voted by an overwhelming majority to leave the Commonwealth of Australia.

The state, federal & imperial governments in West Perth, Canberra & London all simply ignored the result and carried on as though it hadn't happened. Most Australians today are unaware the event even occurred. (History is written, or ignored, by the victors.)

That might be worth bearing in mind.
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Re: EU referendum

Post by Cody »

Latest headlines:

Bookmakers have a win for Remain at odds of 1/6!
Brexit would trigger the zombie apocalypse!
Who was it that set up a system, a supposedly democratic system
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
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